Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals. Use this subforum for all requests as to "How much is this vintage bike worth?"Do NOT try to sell it in here, use the Marketplaces.

Schwinn Parmamount - 62cm, 1989 Waterford made

Old 12-13-09, 05:29 PM
  #1  
schnee
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Schwinn Parmamount - 62cm, 1989 Waterford made



When I bought it, it was practically unridden; it has some scrapes on the outside of the STIs and small blemishes from being stored for ~20 years, but the cassette wasn't even dirty. I put 500 miles or so on it.

It's mostly original. Waterford mande Paramount, 1989. Most other things that aren't original are period correct - new old stock (cassette, chainrings) or used (seatpost, handlebars, stem). Only the saddle, tires, and bar tape are 'new'.

The notable flaws: The drive side chainstay is chipped from chain strike. The outsides of the brifters are scraped (from storage, not from a crash). There's a painted over 2" scratch on the left fork blade near the dropout. The skewer levers are spotted with rust.

Can you tell me what this is worth?

Frame:
  • Waterford Serial Number: 620FLWF 89042
  • Columbus SLX tubing
  • Top tube: 58.5cm - center to center
  • Seat tube: 62cm - center to top
  • Head tube: 20cm - edge to edge
  • Chainstays: 16.5cm - axle to center
  • Wheelbase: 102cm - axle to axle
  • Standover: ~85.5cm (33-5/8") frame, but assume 86cm (34") because of the brake line on the top

Build details:
  • Group: Shimano 105 - brifters, cranks, headset, rear dereailleur, brakes, hubs; Shimano 600 front derailleur
  • Steering: 3TTT stem (11cm), 3TTT handlebars (44cm), Fizik 'Apple green' bar tape
  • Seating: Specialized Avatar Gel saddle (155mm), double-bolt setback seatpost (can't tell the brand)
  • Wheels: Shimano 105 hubs & skewers, Mavic 129 box-section rims, 32-spoke 3-cross, on Continental GP 4000 tires
  • Drivetrain: Shimano 105 cranks (175mm arms), 8-speed 13-26 cassette, 53/39 chainrings









schnee is offline  
Old 12-13-09, 06:54 PM
  #2  
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,929
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
$500 in the spring. Lower the seat 1", change out the green tape, remove the bottle cages, change out the rusty skewer, replace the broken rear derailleur housing, retape bars so the edge is even with the center sleeve. Overall its a nice looking bike, try your local Craigslist first, if it doesnt sell localy try Ebay.
miamijim is online now  
Old 12-13-09, 09:52 PM
  #3  
schnee
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the advice.

What color/type of tape do you recommend?
schnee is offline  
Old 12-14-09, 07:54 AM
  #4  
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,929
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by schnee View Post
Thanks for the advice.

What color/type of tape do you recommend?
Something neutral and something other than green. Perhaps whatever color the frame lettering is, if thats not suitable....black. Your Ebay pictures were OK but they could've been taken from a little further away. You only had 1 shot of the enitire bike with a bunch of components closeup. A few more pics of the entire bike from varying angles would be nice. When you take a pic of a complete bike its wheels should be even with the picture frame. When you take pics of components they shouldnt be larger than the components is in real life. Its not good to have your entire 21" widescreen monitor filled with a derailler.

...and angle the bars down just a touch.

And CLEAN IT. ITS FILTHY.

miamijim is online now  
Old 12-16-09, 04:10 PM
  #5  
RobbieTunes 
Half drunk? Finish!
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Very Southern Indiana
Posts: 25,792
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked 103 Times in 71 Posts
I would go $500 here, $350 for being a nice rider with 2x8 STI shifting, $$50 for being a Paramount, and $50-$100 more for being a Waterford with SLX tubing.
__________________
Robbie ♪♫♪...☻
I have unfinished business.

RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 12-16-09, 04:59 PM
  #6  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,490

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If it's an '89 and is a 62cm frame, it is very unlikely SLX was used. Here's a description of the tubing from the 1989 catalog:

The ultra-light frameset is rifled Columbus SLX tubing from Italy's finest tubing manufacturer. A special blend of Columbus SL/SP tubing is used for sizes above 570 mm.
1989 was the first year Schwinn offered the Paramount with TrueTemper O.S. tubing as an option, but if yours is Columbus regular sized tubing, it just about has to be the SL/SP mix.
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 12-16-09, 05:31 PM
  #7  
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Posts: 6,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
If it's an '89 and is a 62cm frame, it is very unlikely SLX was used. Here's a description of the tubing from the 1989 catalog:
I'm curious if schnee's has the SLX decal. I've got an '84 60cm with an SLX decal, but there are no ridges in the seat or down tubes. The steerer tube has helical ridges, however.
JunkYardBike is offline  
Old 12-16-09, 05:36 PM
  #8  
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,929
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
I'm curious if schnee's has the SLX decal. I've got an '84 60cm with an SLX decal, but there are no ridges in the seat or down tubes. The steerer tube has helical ridges, however.
No ridges means its NOT SLX. SL tubed bikes had the steerer tube helical ridges.
miamijim is online now  
Old 12-16-09, 06:04 PM
  #9  
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Posts: 6,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
No ridges means its NOT SLX. SL tubed bikes had the steerer tube helical ridges.
Yep, that's my understanding. Just trying to figure out why they stuck an SLX decal on the frame. It's possibly a repaint, so that could account for it. schnee's bike might be a similar case if it's got an SLX decal.
JunkYardBike is offline  
Old 12-16-09, 06:30 PM
  #10  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,490

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
Yep, that's my understanding. Just trying to figure out why they stuck an SLX decal on the frame. It's possibly a repaint, so that could account for it. schnee's bike might be a similar case if it's got an SLX decal.
The 1984 catalog implies all Paramounts that year, regardless of size, were SL/SP mix. I suspect the SLX decal was applied during a repaint.

__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 12-16-09, 07:03 PM
  #11  
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Posts: 6,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Didn't want to hijack the thread, but mine is kind of an in-betweener it seems. Frame dated '84 with '84 details, but '85 decals and a S/N format that seems to fall between a transitional phase. Lots of signs point to repaint. My thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...aramount-ranks
JunkYardBike is offline  
Old 12-16-09, 07:40 PM
  #12  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,490

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
Didn't want to hijack the thread, but mine is kind of an in-betweener it seems. Frame dated '84 with '84 details, but '85 decals and a S/N format that seems to fall between a transitional phase. Lots of signs point to repaint. My thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...aramount-ranks
Thanks for the link to the earlier thread; you guys seem to have sorted out most of it.

A while back we got curious about when the serial numbers were moved from the left rear dropout to the BB shell, and with Pastor Bob's help and help from a few others, we pinned it down to within a few months. Sometime between December, 1983 (M8340) and September, 1984 (J8496), the serial number was moved from the left rear dropout to the bottom of the BB shell (M8340 is on the dropout while J8496 is on the BB shell).
__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 12-17-09, 08:32 PM
  #13  
Procione
Senior Member
 
Procione's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 198

Bikes: Steel

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Out here in Seattle there was this old Paramount at LBS for $900, friction shifters, crappy paint, yuck.
The bar tape should match the color of the saddle and those two can match either the color of the frame or lettering, and no more than 4 colors on the bike.
Those paint chips on the chain stay can be touched up, and covered with either electrical tape (round off edges for factory look) or chain stay protectors from LBS.
Procione is offline  
Old 12-19-09, 07:06 PM
  #14  
schnee
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OK, so from what I'm hearing:
  • Consensus is this frame is a repaint. However, there is a sticker on the seat tube near the BB from a bike shop in Texas with the year 1987 on it. If it was a repaint, then would that point to some, um, 'creativity'?
  • The SLX was my conclusion from reading up on Paramount history on the Waterford site. There's no Columbus badge on the bike. So, it's more likely SP?
  • $500 seems a little... cheap. Sheldon's guide says $700-1000 in 'guideline' condition, which is more mileage than this bike. I see beat up framesets going on eBay for $800. Are later Paramounts worth less for some reason I don't understand? (Not trying to make money on it or anything, but that's a bit less than what I paid and I'm curious for the reasons why.)
Thanks.

Last edited by schnee; 12-19-09 at 07:10 PM.
schnee is offline  
Old 12-19-09, 07:16 PM
  #15  
norskagent
car dodger
 
norskagent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: garner/raleigh nc
Posts: 3,372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The 105 component mix yields a lower "value". If it were full dura ace then ~$700 or so would be more realistic, imo.
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Old 12-19-09, 10:59 PM
  #16  
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 10,490

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by schnee View Post
OK, so from what I'm hearing:
  • The SLX was my conclusion from reading up on Paramount history on the Waterford site. There's no Columbus badge on the bike. So, it's more likely SP?
Thanks.
Not SP; a mix of SL and SP. I believe the top tube and seat tube are SL, and the down tube is SP. If you look at the tubeset weights, SL is lighter than SLX, and SP is heavier than SLX. SP tubeset is 1966 g, SL is 1925g, and SP is 2215g.



FWIW, I paid $500 for my Dura-Ace equipped '87.

__________________
- Stan

my bikes

Science doesn't care what you believe.
Scooper is offline  
Old 12-20-09, 07:45 AM
  #17  
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Posts: 6,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
And sorry for the confusion: my frame is a probable repaint. I don't think anyone has speculated that yours is (unless I missed something).
JunkYardBike is offline  
Old 12-21-09, 02:52 AM
  #18  
schnee
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
And sorry for the confusion: my frame is a probable repaint. I don't think anyone has speculated that yours is (unless I missed something).
Oh, thanks for the clarification. My bad then.
schnee is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
bassjones
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
14
03-12-11 10:11 PM
c0urt
Foo
3
08-18-07 10:58 AM
skrizman
Road Cycling
4
03-23-07 11:02 PM
Diggy18
General Cycling Discussion
8
08-20-04 06:44 PM
nualle
Recumbent
2
11-30-03 04:02 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.