73raleigh

this is a classic steel frame made entirely of columbus sl or slx tubing ( the sticker is torn right after the L so i dont know if there was an x or not) as you can see it has 2 cut outs on the bottom bracket shell as well as a 57 the size and a 2 which i have not figured out yet other than that there is not a single number on this bike and some one pulled every sticker at some point. It came fully equiped with campagnolo super record everything the stem and handle bars are the only pieces that dont seem to fit they are sakae world custom. i have been told it is a Masi , cinelli, colnago even a nishiki pro i really just want to know what this thing is. it is super light and made of excellent tubing any help would be greatly appreciated please see the attachments for pictures of all the details. thank you all in advance for any help you might be able to offer.

it came with competition champion tubulars and there was a sticker on the wheel that said "record du monde" i dont know if this helps i will try and add a picture of this other sticker but i am having trouble uploading it.

oh and yes it is an italian threaded bb and steerer tube

Any help would be greatly appreciated

miamijim

I think you can rule out Cinelli and Colnago.

Picchio Special

It's none of the builders you listed, as they wouldn't have used the Columbus dove motif to stamp the frame parts. It looks well-made for sure. The color of the tubing decal should tell you something about the tubing type - what color is it? It looks to me like one of those frames built for shows to demonstrate frame tubing, other frame parts, and/or componentry. You may never know who actually built it.

73raleigh

ok well that isnt a bad thing at all i was hoping to find a brand name frame but it doesnt really matter. i believe it is made of columbus sl tubing it has a blue and gold sticker the slx would have been red and gold i believe.the frame only weighs 3lb 3 oz this thing is crazy light. i think i got a pretty good deal i paid 225 for this bike with a full campy super record group (date 1980) with competition champion tubulars laced to sr low flange hubs. time for another full ground up restoration i will post more pictures as it comes together. thanks for the help if anyone knows anything else about this frame or frames like it i would love to learn more.

cudak888 

Proteus frame kit?

-Kurt

Picchio Special

With Italian threading?

unworthy1

the only time I've seen frames with the "generic" Columbus dove pantographing and Gipiemme ends is on "contractor" frames...seems to be an opportunity for somebody (for a random example, somebody like BMZ or Biemmezeta) who's building brandname frames for a big brand (say, Signore "C") to add a few more to the order that can be sold off to shops or clubs. But these have to bear no distinctive logos or engraving that could get BMZ in trouble with "Mr. Big".

Bianchigirll 

I think the colors of the SL and SLX stickers are very different and distinct. even if the 'X' was torn off it would be easy to tell. I think SL was a duller sticker with black border. SLX was much brighter with red border.

Nice looking frame I think we saw that in another thread a few months ago

73raleigh

I now have the frame stripped and found some more stampings on the top tube where it meets the head tube it is stamped (C SL 2/2 80D) and on the bottom of the down tube near the head tube there is a (SL 80D) does this mean anything to anyone? i am amusing that the top one means it is Columbus SL tubing that it is frame 2 of 2 and i was made in either april or december of 1980 not really sure if my logic translates to reality or not but it seems to fit. let me know what you guys think. my the way what is a proteus frame kit?

unworthy1

Serial number deciphering all sounds plausible, but I have no way to confirm any of it...it could be around 1980, but maybe slightly earlier, too. If those stampings are very small and light they may not be builder's serial number, but the ones Columbus stamped on the tubing (often with a "dove" logo, too).
Proteus Designs made both complete frames (sold in Maryland) as well as published one of the first handbooks to "learn yourself" how to braze your own frame. To complete the package they assembled "kits" of Reynolds 531 tubing and lugs/frame bits and sold those too, by mail. I never saw a Proteus kit with Columbus tubing offered, but perhaps there was one.

73raleigh

I am a fairly certain that it is a 1980 because it has a campy super record group from 1980 and it has 80 in 2 places on the frame the only place there is a dove stamped is on the steerer tube i am not sure if that means anything but just thought i would share. thank you for all of your responses we may never know exactly who made it but i am going to be contacting columbus tomorrow to see if they have any knowledge about any show bikes like this one ever being made i know it is a long shot but i figure it might be worth a shot. anyways it is very late talk to you all tomorrow. thanks again

5cagm

It's worth a shot but I have contacted them before and they are often slow to respond (not always) and they had never even heard of a tubing I was asking about that was a special set for a Cilo from the 90's. Either they don't always keep records or they're too lazy to look so don't be too disappointed if they don't return any useful info.

cudak888 

Check.

-Kurt

unworthy1

I doubt very much that it's a "show bike"...but anything's possible, best of luck with Columbus.

73raleigh

columbus responded to me stating that they needed more information to verify that this was one of those bikes but they did confirm that 2 bikes were made by an unknown frame builder in 1980 so i guess it is a possibility but we may never know for sure

73raleigh

Now I am getting conflicting information now columbus says:

It’s very difficult to know something about this frame. It appears like a normal steel frame built many years ago.
For sure, I can tell you the Columbus engraving on the fork crown and on the seat plugs are not original. That is not our Columbus “Dove”.
It could be Columbus SL tubing set but there is no original sticker on it.
Kind regards

Mauro Mondonico




Which leaves the only reasonable question what the heck is going on why would some one fake the emblems and how would they get away with using the columbus name and logo with out permission? i fear that this frame will remain a mystery does any one have any ideas or info to share?

unworthy1

I'm going to make some (educated, I hope) guesses here: Columbus don't claim these pantographed logos, cause they did not engrave them nor make the forkcrown or stay caps that bear them. Those were made by somebody else (be that Cinelli or Italtechno or whatever) and the pantographing was done by the frame builder.
I still like my theory that this was made by one of the large Italian contract-builders (or even a small boutique shop) that made big-name frames for big brands (Billato and BMZ are two names I know of, but perhaps there are many more).This frame bears some strong resemblances to other frames (like Colnago, just for a random example) but the builder chose to engrave it with something "neutral" like the name and logo of the tubing used so as to make some side money (selling identical or nearly identical frames) but avoid conflict with his valuable contract. Assuming the following: that Columbus wouldn't object to their logo being used (since it is their tubing after all), but Ernesto certainly would make trouble if he caught wind that builder 'X" was selling his "Supercorsa" branded frames on the side. Based on what little I know of Italian bicycle business practices, nothing in this scenario is beyond "normal possibility" .
Again the Colnago thing is just for illustration/demo purposes, I'm not saying this is a necessarily a Colnago frame.