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Paramount worth seller's asking price?

Old 02-25-11, 04:55 PM
  #1  
Robofunc
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Paramount worth seller's asking price?

I saw this on CL today:

https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/bik/2231723811.html

Seller says it's a '72, says the saddle is in good shape, everything is original and works well and that it just needs to be cleaned up. He's asking $2100. This bike seems a little rough for the price, but I'm not too Paramount savvy. Any opinions?
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Old 02-25-11, 04:57 PM
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It's not worth half of the seller's asking price.
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Old 02-25-11, 05:28 PM
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I'll have what he's drinking.
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Old 02-25-11, 05:45 PM
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Yeah, thanks for reassuring me. Thought I was going crazy when he told me what he was asking. I figured it had to be a super rare model or something.
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Old 02-25-11, 06:10 PM
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Tell him you'll just get a nicer one of the same vintage for half the price on ebay.
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Old 02-25-11, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by norskagent View Post
Tell him you'll just get a nicer one of the same vintage for half the price on ebay.
Yeah, but not with that brake lever mirror and generator lighting system!
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Old 02-25-11, 07:09 PM
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I watch Paramounts closely on Ebay since I want one Two in excellent original condition have sold recently, one for $1800 (a 72 racing model), one for $1225 (a 73 touring model). So $2100 seems quite high for this rather rough condition bike.
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Old 02-25-11, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueDevil63 View Post
I watch Paramounts closely on Ebay since I want one Two in excellent original condition have sold recently, one for $1800 (a 72 racing model), one for $1225 (a 73 touring model). So $2100 seems quite high for this rather rough condition bike.
Frankly $1800 is too high for a '72 P13-9, unless it's gold plated. Maybe values are returning to pre-recession levels, but both those values seem on the high end. But then I'm not eyeballing those specific bikes. As always, patience brings rewards. Paramounts are not exactly rare.
Edit: Just checked out the P13-9 in "Silver Mist", and I think that's a very stout price for that bike. Especially given the non-Campagnolo brakes.

Last edited by Picchio Special; 02-25-11 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 02-25-11, 07:24 PM
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$2100 for this? he must be taking lessons from that quack with the $10K ferrari red Bianchi LOL

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Old 02-25-11, 07:38 PM
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In that condition, too expensive by at least a factor of two. Even cleaned up and made nice and pretty, it's too expensive by close to a factor of two.

Of course, as always, my opinion is worth exactly what you're paying for it.
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Old 02-25-11, 09:03 PM
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That guy is off his rocker!!!
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Old 02-25-11, 09:32 PM
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This bike seems a little rough for the price
As the others have said, yes you are right.

The additional consideration given your location
is that anything that rough is probably going
to have some non visible corrosion issues -- but
you may know this already.

There are some nice Paramounts showing up
around here (NorCal) in the $1000 and under
range on CL. They pop up pretty regularly
in the SF Bay Area.
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Old 02-25-11, 09:35 PM
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He'd be lucky to get half of his asking price. As others have pointed out, there's probably a lot of as-yet undiscovered corrosion.
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Old 02-25-11, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
Frankly $1800 is too high for a '72 P13-9, unless it's gold plated. Maybe values are returning to pre-recession levels, but both those values seem on the high end. But then I'm not eyeballing those specific bikes. As always, patience brings rewards. Paramounts are not exactly rare.
Edit: Just checked out the P13-9 in "Silver Mist", and I think that's a very stout price for that bike. Especially given the non-Campagnolo brakes.
Both went higher than I thought they would and obviously higher than I was willing to pay. But they both attracted quite active bidding and represent some view of the market.
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Old 02-26-11, 02:31 AM
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Thanks, everyone. I'll go look at it, offer him $600, pull my shades down and watch the fireworks.
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Old 02-26-11, 06:23 AM
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I've paid:

$900 for a pristine '73 P13-9 and sold it very quickly for $1850
$600 for a very nice '74 P14 of which I still own
$550 for an extra nice '74-ish P65 of which I still own

Examples in very good or better condition bring big bucks but they better very good. The bike in Clearwater is worth $250-300 in that condition.

Last edited by miamijim; 03-12-11 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 02-26-11, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
Frankly $1800 is too high for a '72 P13-9, unless it's gold plated. Maybe values are returning to pre-recession levels, but both those values seem on the high end. But then I'm not eyeballing those specific bikes. As always, patience brings rewards. Paramounts are not exactly rare.
Edit: Just checked out the P13-9 in "Silver Mist", and I think that's a very stout price for that bike. Especially given the non-Campagnolo brakes.
The key is originality, NON-Campagnolo brakes were OEM and thats what serious collectors want. Originality. If these bikes are selling for what they're selling for then who are we to say they're over priced?
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Old 02-26-11, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
The key is originality, NON-Campagnolo brakes were OEM and thats what serious collectors want. Originality. If these bikes are selling for what they're selling for then who are we to say they're over priced?
That's not what I'm getting at (where did I say "over priced?" - I simply meant to say I wouldn't personally pay $1800). As we all know, especially with ebay, there's a broader range of pricing than with most commodities. I simply think the offered examples are on the high end of the range - not necessarily outliers, but on the high end. Before the economy went south, very nice, original Paramounts were selling in the $1200-1500 range, and often lower. I bought a very clean, chrome '68 with lug lining and some nice parts for $1200 not that long ago, and sold it for about $1400. It's possible I'm out of touch with the market, but Paramounts are fairly plentiful, even nice ones. I'll be keeping an eye out to see if the Paramount waters are rising, possibly because the supply is drying up a bit or new folks (who always want Paramounts because they think they're supposed to) are driving up prices on nice examples. I'm curious to know.
By the way, Campagnolo brakes were original on some Paramounts - they were a $50 upgrade. I doubt their presence is deterring "serious collectors" in the majority of instances.
Edit: To say I took another look at the silver mist one on ebay, and it is exceptionally clean - I can see why it was worth the bid price for someone looking for one in that color - which is one of my favorites. Maybe I'm just snarky because I sold one in the same color and almost as good shape a couple of years ago (but sans original wheels) for about $650.

Last edited by Picchio Special; 02-26-11 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 02-26-11, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
That's not what I'm getting at (where did I say "over priced?" - I simply meant to say I wouldn't personally pay $1800). As we all know, especially with ebay, there's a broader range of pricing than with most commodities. I simply think the offered examples are on the high end of the range - not necessarily outliers, but on the high end. Before the economy went south, very nice, original Paramounts were selling in the $1200-1500 range, and often lower. I bought a very clean, chrome '68 with lug lining and some nice parts for $1200 not that long ago, and sold it for about $1400. It's possible I'm out of touch with the market, but Paramounts are fairly plentiful, even nice ones. I'll be keeping an eye out to see if the Paramount waters are rising, possibly because the supply is drying up a bit or new folks (who always want Paramounts because they think they're supposed to) are driving up prices on nice examples. I'm curious to know.
By the way, Campagnolo brakes were original on some Paramounts - they were a $50 upgrade. I doubt their presence is deterring "serious collectors" in the majority of instances.
Edit: To say I took another look at the silver mist one on ebay, and it is exceptionally clean - I can see why it was worth the bid price for someone looking for one in that color - which is one of my favorites. Maybe I'm just snarky because I sold one in the same color and almost as good shape a couple of years ago (but sans original wheels) for about $650.
You said "$1800 is too high" which I interpreted as 'overpriced'. Regardless, I do agree with your points.
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Old 02-26-11, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
You said "$1800 is too high" which I interpreted as 'overpriced'.
Poor choice of words on my part.
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Old 02-26-11, 11:11 AM
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Lots of good points brought up here. You know the bottom line is that it is worth whatever an individual buyer will pay. This dude might just get some uninitiated buyer to cough up close to what he asking because they haven't done the research or simply because they "have to have it". We've all seen it happen. Personally, I think the dude is nuts.
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Old 03-03-11, 11:41 AM
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Just for the record

SF bay area craigslist > north bay > for sale / wanted > bicycles

1975 Schwinn Paramount P15-9 Men's 21'' - $500 (fairfax)

Date: 2011-02-28, 6:59PM PST
Reply to: sale-gmmzy-2240246281@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

1975 Schwinn Paramount P15-9, serial # (B7566), tourer model. Men's 21''
Stand over height 31''. I am 5' 8'' and fits me perfect.

Made in Feb.'75 66th build for the month. This is a completely original component Paramount.

Some of the highlights:
Frame and chromed crown fork are straight and true without any dents, some paint chips, very little surface rust.
Rear and fork chrome and Nervex lugs have no pitting or surface rust.
The frame is painted flamboyant red, Reynolds 531 tubing with Campy dropouts, with touring eyelets, with Nervex Chrome Pro Lugs.
Original Campy "Record'' triple crank set. (36/46/54).
Campy crank arms and teeth are in very good condition, true and straight, with campy BB.
The Campy cable guide is working great and still has the Campy Clover Leaf pump bracket.
Original Campy front derailler and Campy seat post, and original Brooks Pro Saddle. Saddle has terrific patina.
Le Tour GT 300 rear derailleurs (made by Shimano) which are in excellent condition.
Schwinn ratchet fingertip controls are working fine.
Original freewheel cluster, 14-16-19-25-31.
Wheels are made in Belgium for Weinman with Campy large flange Campy quick release hubs, spokes have surface rust, but are true and strong.
Wienman Gold label 750, 2.3 front, 2.7 rear. Cinelli bars and stem.
Campy "Strada" headset, has some light surface wear.
Campy "Superleggeri" black alloy pedals, not dented.

This Paramount just had a total tune up (cables,etc) and rides like a dream, no head set play, fun to ride with terrific gearing. If you want to paint ($300), but the patina look is great. Gets a lot of thumbs up. Ready to ride.

First $500 takes this classic. Hate to sell.

Call me for any questions. I'll be able to return calls after Sunday night. (415) 457-3279. Leave a message!
Thanks to all Paramount Fans!


And if it were not way too small for me, I
doubt I would be posting it here.
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Old 03-03-11, 12:46 PM
  #23  
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Nice bike and nothing wrong with the price, unless some unrepairable damage exists.
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Old 03-03-11, 12:59 PM
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I posted the '75 Paramount in the "are you looking for one of these" thread, it was followed by this post.

Paramount

I saw this Paramount in person last month when it was up at $600 and the seller wouldn't consider a penny less... It is quite a bit rougher than he describes; rust pits on the fork crown, rusty spokes, and the paint is very funky. The price is getting better, but expect this to require a pretty thorough going through on the buyers part.



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Old 03-07-11, 06:57 AM
  #25  
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Fellow has taken his asking price off and replaced it with "NO EMAILS ,NO LOW BALLERS, NOT CHEAP."

What an ass.

-Kurt
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