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Colnago Super Track/Pista Frame

Old 11-07-11, 02:16 PM
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CicliAnnata
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Colnago Super Track/Pista Frame

I'm hoping someone can reveal a little more information on this frame that I just picked up. It's supposedly a Colnago Super, but it doesn't have any of the normal Colnago characteristics, such as the clover cutout on the bottom bracket, the Colnago logo on the seatstay near the seat lug, or clover cutouts on any lugs. It also has no serial number that I can find, only the letters "KS" on the left dropout. The decals are of a Colnago super, with mention of Merckx's record in Mexico City on the seat tube. No Columbus sticker, but perhaps that was peeled off years ago. No fork. I'm not planning on selling it, but I would like to restore it and build it up with period-correct parts. The paint is actually much nicer and a darker red than the photos look. I'll take better photos in the daylight when I get a chance.

Please, if anyone has any info or can even venture a guess as to the year, that would be awesome. I would estimate mid-to-late 70s. Any appraisals?

Thanks!


PB050033 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr


PB050032 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr


PB050037 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr


PB050044 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr


PB050043 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr
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Old 11-07-11, 02:18 PM
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More pics:


PB050041 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr


PB050045 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr


PB050048 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr


PB050049 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr


PB050052 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr
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Old 11-07-11, 11:51 PM
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hey, I hate to ruin it for you. But that is not a colnago

Nice frame though.And that chrome will come up perfect with some cleaning ( use some alfoil and some polish)
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Old 11-08-11, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by aeroBLOKE View Post
hey, I hate to ruin it for you. But that is not a colnago

Nice frame though.And that chrome will come up perfect with some cleaning ( use some alfoil and some polish)
Agree. The frame details are wrong for a Colnago.
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Old 11-08-11, 08:57 AM
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Not a 'nago to me either.

Identity by transfers.

What kind of threading does it have?
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Old 11-08-11, 10:07 AM
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Paint it red and build it up, the chrome will look really nice with a little bit of effort.

Value? $150 or so since there is no fork.
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Old 11-08-11, 11:23 AM
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Ok, I agree that the frame details are wrong as I mentioned in my first post. The frame seems to be of high quality, not high-ten. Lugwork seems While I don't know the threading of the bottom bracket yet, a peek inside shows a clean finish. Tubes aren't sticking into it as shown in Randy Jawa's photo here: Peugeot PR10.

Could it be a re-branded Raul Mesa like the one shown here, minus the "shaped" tubing?

Maybe I'm in denial. So someone found a nice old 80s track frame, painted it the exact same color as my c. 1985 Celo Europa Super (which is basically a Colnago Super), and found a matching seatpost binder bolt as the Pièce de Résistance? If someone wanted to forge a Colnago frame, going through the trouble of finding Colnago bolt seems pretty extreme, and I must tip my hat to them. Also, the photos attached here are closer to the actual color.


PB060056 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr


PB060058 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr


PB060057 by BikesBeersAndBigRocks, on Flickr
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Old 11-08-11, 11:33 AM
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You are in denial.

The seat stay tops are just bent closed. Colnago used plugs that at various times were fluted then investment cast with Colnago.
The lugs are all wrong.
The seat lug has nary an attempt at thinning the lug wall.

Fasteners are easy to come by.
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Old 11-08-11, 12:05 PM
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Stamped dropouts, thick lugs. I'm sure it will be an OK bike to ride, but it's not a Colnago and is probably not made with particularly good tubing. Sorry man. Hope it was cheap, if so, build it up and ride it. If not, take it back and hit the guy over the head with it.
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Old 11-08-11, 02:03 PM
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Ok so it's not a Colnago. Any guess as to what it might be?
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Old 11-08-11, 02:51 PM
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Stamped dropouts were the red flag for me...

Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
If not, take it back and hit the guy over the head with it.
I like this idea.

Anyway, paint it the color of your choice and enjoy it for what it is. A nice old track bike.
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Old 11-08-11, 07:38 PM
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I think it may be French. No answer on what the bottom bracket threading is yet. Confirm that and we can work on it.
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Old 11-08-11, 09:49 PM
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It appears to be French with Italian tendencies. When I used calipers to measure the width of the BB shell, it was 69.4mm. When I measured the interior diameter of the shell, it was 35.4mm. As a side note, when I used a steel ruler to measure the width, it appeared to be exactly 70mm, which goes to show the inaccuracy of this darned thing.

Anyone know any famous French track frame makers?
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Old 11-09-11, 11:15 AM
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Actually that raises an interesting question. The diameter of the shell was measured to the top of the threads the "inside diameter", but it should be measured to the bottom of the threads since that would be the major diameter. This means that a 35mm French cup would be too small, right? Wouldn't this mean that it would accomodate a 36mm cup? Doesn't that indicate that this is an Italian BB? I'm going to try and get my hands on an Italian BB cup today to test fit it.
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Old 11-09-11, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CicliAnnata View Post
Actually that raises an interesting question. The diameter of the shell was measured to the top of the threads the "inside diameter", but it should be measured to the bottom of the threads since that would be the major diameter. This means that a 35mm French cup would be too small, right? Wouldn't this mean that it would accomodate a 36mm cup? Doesn't that indicate that this is an Italian BB? I'm going to try and get my hands on an Italian BB cup today to test fit it.
Correct, the minor diameter of a French threaded shell is less than 35 mm.
If you do not have a good set of calipers any fractional measure of a mm is suspect.
I assume you have checked the thread directions of the shell.
I would locate a local shop that is vintage aware and can advise on what it is.
Test, don't guess.
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Old 11-09-11, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
I would locate a local shop that is vintage aware and can advise on what it is.
Test, don't guess.
+1

Figure out *definitively* what BB you need before buying one or guessing whether the bike is French, Italian, etc...
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Old 11-09-11, 01:27 PM
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Well my calipers are quite accurate and I trust them much more than the steel ruler. I've gotten my hands on a French and an Italian BB cup, so I'll be test fitting tonight when I get off work.
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Old 11-09-11, 08:45 PM
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Just test fit the BB cups and it is definitely Italian. The French one slipped right through, the Italian cup fit perfectly. Perhaps a not-for-export bike?
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Old 11-09-11, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CicliAnnata View Post
Just test fit the BB cups and it is definitely Italian. The French one slipped right through, the Italian cup fit perfectly. Perhaps a not-for-export bike?
Who knows. Not a Colnago though. The handling of the seat stay ends at the seat lug and the basic attention to the lugs looked mid range French.
At this point its a track frame in need of a fork.
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