toosahn

What's the approximate worth of this Bob Jackson?

bikingshearer 

Okay, I'll play. I'll guestimate $300-$350.

The components say mid-1970s to me, and that was at or shortly after the time that Jacksons had some quality control issues (especially in teh bottom bracket threads), so knowledgable folks will view it as something of a crap-shoot. There doesn't appear to be a Campy component anywhere on the bike, and that will bring the value down. Since Jacksons left Leeds as frame-and-fork only, they could be built up with whatever the selling shop or the ultimate buyer wanted. This one looks like someone wanted good perfromace without paying Campy prices. From what I can see, whoever chose the components made good choices from a performance standpoint, but not ones that translate into maximum bucks in the 2011 market.

Stuff I think I can see from the photos:

Those look like Universal brakes, but they look like a mismatched set. The rear looks like it is a Model 51 long reach rear, but the front looks like a Model 68 more-normal reach front. Model 51s had long-reach rears and short-reach fronts for some reason apparently known only to the Italians. The 68s were pretty much exactly the same brake, except front and rear were both the same reach - shorter than a 51 rear and longer than a 51 front. This would not be the first bike to have this Universal brake mix-and-match set-up because of the goofy reach combo in the 51s.

Phil Wood hubs. Nice touch. Those should reach the end of their useful life somewhere around 2075. Can't tell what kind of rims those are, but I remember back in the day seeing rims with the red sticker around the valve hole these appear to have. I want to say those are Super Champions, but I am not at all sure of that. The condition of the sew-ups will have some effect opn the value as well. If they are period-correct, good quality and still in good shape, they can bring some extra bucks.

I don't think that is a Brooks saddle, and it doesn't look like what I remember Ideale's looking like. although I could easily be wrong on both. But if I'm right, yoiu lose a fair amount of the leather saddle cache in the eyes of most buyers.

Hard to tell, but that looks like a Sugino crank and Suntour derailleurs, so I'd guess those are also Suntour barcons. All good-quality alternatives to Campy at a fraction of the price. They also bring a fraction of the resale value.

So that's my opinion, and it's worth exactly what you are paying for it.

repechage

Boy, that is a big one. This one is tough, the Simplex skewers are sought after. as are the Phil Wood hubs but not by the same folk generally.
Most value a la carte.
As it sits. $350. wild guess. $600 will be way too much.

toosahn

Thanks Rich and repechage!

The reason I'm asking is because the seller wants $700 for it and I felt that was kind of high.

It's my size and I'd like to acquire it to add to my small collection, but I wasn't willing to drop $700 on it.

I just really liked the color!

bikingshearer 

You're welcome. And for what it's worth, repechage's opinion carries a bunch more weigh than mine.

My guess is it's a good riding bike and you'd enjoy it, but $700 is significantly too steep, IMHO - and I have a soft spot in my heart for Jackson's of that vintage.

KonAaron Snake 

I disagree...in an ebay auction the condition and beauty (and are those Phil Woods hubs?) will bring the value up. I think the frame is worth over $350. I think $700 is about right.

lostarchitect 

I agree with Aaron, $700 sounds reasonable. If you could get it for $600 I'd say go for it for sure. It looks to be in nice condition, and it's a Bob Jackson. I think the quality control stuff is mostly BS. A lot of people talk about it on the internet, but few and far between are the ones who have personal experience that backs it up.

bikingshearer 

Well, today is your lucky day. I personally experienced it. I bought my gorgeous red-with-white Jackson in 1975 with my first paycheck from my first job out of high school. (The frame was at least a year old, probably more - I never thought to ask - so it is almost certaianly from teh time period in question.) Not long into my ownership, and about 30 miles into a ride, the bottom bracket disassembled. The threads were toast. The fix the shop came up with was (1) a Phil Wood bottom bracket and (2)significant amounts of Loc-Tite. This was a good shop run by the nicest husband-and-wife team you could ever hope to meet. They knew their stuff and they knew I did not have a ton of dough, and always treated me right - they would not have gone to those lengths if the problem had an easier fix. It worked for another 15 years or so until the bike was stolen out of my garage (may the thief rot and burn).

I can't speak to how often is happened. but I can say that happen it did. And in another thread, repechage (I thnk it was him) spoke of hearing from Bob Jackson himself that there was a stretch in the early 70s when the lads may have been a tad enthusiastic about clamping the BBs in the vise. I suspect lostarchitect is correct in that the Jackson QC issue is commented on by any number of folks who do not have first-hand knowledge, but that talk clearly came from somewhere. Of course, I have never touched a Lambert in my life, but I am still pretty certain that the "death fork" was a genuine issue. Most of the time, the received wisdom doesn't just spring up from nowhere. Sometimes it does, but not very often.

But the one toosahn has pictured shore is a damn purty bike . . . .

KonAaron Snake 

I think all builders have had bikes with QC issues and there are always ones with issues. I've heard numerous times that Merlins break at the shifter boss - but I've never seen it.

Bottom line is that's an exceptionally clean and beautiful frame - even with the throw away parts.

Aren't those Phil Woods hubs?

I would pay $700 for that if I had space and it fit (but I'd also look at the BB shell).

repechage

That was me. My Bob Jackson was originally built as delivered by others at the shop. At the first bottom bracket repack I found an oval bearing racetrack that the cups were running. 30 minutes with the Campagnolo tool kit and I had a 66 mm wide bottom bracket shell with parallel sides. Used Sturmey Archer cog washers to space it out to 68 mm. And a new bottom bracket assy.

The paint and chrome were terrific I must say, but the shell was distorted. I sold the bike 3 years later at a 15% loss. Remember this was the 70's with solid inflation.

Phil Wood cartridge bottom bracket units were a "free" upgrade the shop often provided to hide the truth.

$700 for the big green is a lot, but if one wanted to sell the skewers, and or hubs, and other parts that may reduce the exposure, then it might work. I would offer $625 in that case.

lostarchitect 

So that's two people. Thanks guys.

I don't mean to say it never happened, clearly you two know it did. I do think in the internet echo chamber, it probably seems like it happened a lot more than it actually did.

bikingshearer 

I suspect you are correct. Not every "death fork" broke (which is pretty amazing, if you've ever seen pics of them ), not every Mexican Benotto cracked at the joints, and not every Bob Jackson of early 1970's vintage had BB shell issues. Enough of them did, however, for the stories to get around.

On the flip side, every builder probably has a few frames that he/she wish had never seen the light of day because of mistakes we rarely hear about. (Well, repechage may hear about them, but he is far, far higher up the frame and mechanical knowledge food chain than I could ever hope to be.) At some point in any endeavor, if the same issue comes up often enough, it reaches "critical mass' and becomes a public perception of an ongoing problem. Maybe some doctoral dissertation will reduce this to a formula, but I'll be dipped if I have a clue as to what the tipping point is. All I know is that it happens. And somehow, Jackson BBs hit the tipping point. And in terms of market value, that perception is probably more important than the reality.

It's too bad, too, because I loved mine - it was pretty, that baked enamel paint was tough as nails, I enjoyed riding it (once the BB issue was addressed) and it made me smile just looking at it.

TimmyT 

Repechage and bikingshearer: it is really interesting to read your posts. Thanks for sharing you knowledge. For a relative newcomer to C&V, I learn more from reading this kind of exchange than I would otherwise.

Lostarchitect: thanks for pointing out that internet lore might not be validated (here it is, though).

gomango 

I have a standing offer for $550 for mine from a forum member.

At first I was just going to flip it, then I started to ride it.

These are quite comfortable all-day riders, I was somewhat surprised to discover.

I decided to throw a "little" money at it and keep it.

The All British event here recently honored the bike as well.

As for the quality control, I'd concur that there a couple of things to watch out for.

Look at the seat stay caps and make sure they aren't cracking/giving away.

I've seen two of these now that have cracks around this area, and mine is included.

May only be paint, but something else to consider.

The other point is the BB, but that has been covered here in good detail.

Here's a pic of mine the day I brought her home.

bikingshearer 

Nice bike, gomango. I would only point out that yours appears to be more of a touring model (eyelets on the dropouts, longer wheelbase) compared to the one toosahn is looking at, which looks more like a racing model. That doesn't mean the green one will be an uncomfortable ride - the one I had certanly wasn't, and it was a racing model - but I suspect it will be a stiffer, more responsive, less road-shock-absorbing ride than yours.

kroozer

Bob Jackson is a prestigious name and that's a beautiful frame in what looks like very nice condition. I would think the guy could get at least $300 for the frame and $500 or more for the complete bike. $700 strikes me as the upper end of the price range, but not wildly out of line. It looks very clean and ready to go, like it's been well taken care of. Even though they're not the most expensive, the components are all high-quality, nice vintage stuff. They don't look rusted or beat-on and I don't think you'd need to replace much if anything. Tell him you don't like sew-ups and see if he comes down.

I bought a new set of Universal 68's in the mid-70's, and still have the calipers. The rear is about twice the size of the front, and the same is true of the model 61 centerpull's. The older Italian racing frames for some reason had huge clearances for the rear wheel.

KonAaron Snake 

How much are the Phil Woods wheels going for? I'd guess $200+? Am I wrong on the hubs?

With phil Woods wheels, if in decent shape, I think over 700 is very easy.

toosahn

Well the seller will take $500. So I'm thinking I might go for it. I might want to part out the wheelset since they are not clinchers and thus not very useful for me. I would also probably part out the skewers and the pedals as they aren't useful for me either. So if you guys are interested in those let me know!

lostarchitect 

For $500, heck yes, go for it.

What are the pedals?

toosahn

edit. they are ATOM 700 pedals. See link below

https://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...m=109&AbsPos=4

lostarchitect 

I don't think so... But if that's the case I may be interested, let me know.

toosahn

Ah you are totally right. They are ATOM 700 pedals.

These: https://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...m=109&AbsPos=4

norskagent

you could always build up some clinchers w/ the phil hubs, I've done it several times.

lml999

D'oh.

You'll get $300 for the wheels alone.

And if the frame fits you, that bike could be yours for the next 20 years. I've also had a soft spot for the Bob Jacksons...spent a lot of time poring over their catalogs in my youth. Eventually owned one, but only to flip it (wasn't my size).

Have the frame checked by a shop, run some FrameSaver through it, and build it up with great parts.

Enjoy!

3alarmer

here in NorCal, which is considered a pricey market.




Knowing what I now know, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
When I ride it, it makes me smile. It, too, has Phil Wood
hubs.....the first generation that rust a bit on the exterior.

It still makes me smile.