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Help With Unknown Road Bike Identification? PIC HEAVY

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Help With Unknown Road Bike Identification? PIC HEAVY

Old 12-15-11, 05:17 PM
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swami89
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Help With Unknown Road Bike Identification? PIC HEAVY

Hi folks, been lurking here for over a year but have never really posted. I'm always over at ratrodbikes and bmxmuseum...but could use a bit of help with this one.

I'm a 41 yr old roofing contractor that has been recycling bikes from the landfill/craigslist/ebay for the last 18 yrs. I specialize in mostly pre-war bikes, 70's/80's bmx and early mt bikes but have ended up with a few nice road bikes over the years.

Planning on moving in the next year and need to start identifying some of these so as to move them on to new owners.

I picked up this bike earlier this year but for the life of me cannot find a serial anywhere, I've checked the front/rear dropouts, bottom bracket , head tube, seat tube...nothing.

Completely equipped with Shimano 105 components w/Biopace chainrings (which if i remember right were produced between '83-'93?) and I mean COMPLETE: bottom bracket/crankset, pedals, derailleurs front & rear, front & rear hubs, brakes/levers/cables and headset...all Shimano 105 group.

Decorative lugs throughout (nervex?) and three screw holes on the headtube which leads me toward Raleigh perhaps?

SR stem/bars and Mavic 700's.

Front drops are Tange, rear are Suntour. Stem was drilled out by whoever thought it would save them tons of weigh (apparently)...I've got a whole box of replacements in the shop. I have way more photo's but can only put up 10 in this post.

It's a very large frame, around 63.5cm (25") so WAY too tall for me. I'll let the photo's tell the rest. Thanks in advance for the help!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


IMG_5116 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr



IMG_5129 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5130 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5131 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr



IMG_5119 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr



IMG_5132 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5136 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5125 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5127 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5128 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr
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Old 12-15-11, 06:22 PM
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Here is the online photo album containing the rest of the photo's:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/imanngi...176437/detail/

Last edited by swami89; 12-15-11 at 06:23 PM. Reason: more information added
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Old 12-15-11, 06:27 PM
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Bianchigirll 
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Ditch that stem or put it on the shelf for show

what is going on here? is there a cable guide I can't see.. or is the zipties holding the cable in place?



I suspect the components post date the frame a few years, and the frame is likely a Nishiki, SR or even a Centurion but I am no expert. the fork may even be a replacement since it is not as fanct as the rest of the bike
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Old 12-15-11, 06:41 PM
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Just realized I neglected to shoot photo's of the bottom bracket...

Only one cable guide, directly behind the chainring on the right side of the seat mast...works with the rear derailleur.
The zip tie keeps the front derailleur cable in place beneath the bottom bracket which is smooth, no guide.

Nishiki, SR or Cenurion? Do the lugs give any info?
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Old 12-15-11, 06:57 PM
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Bottom bracket photos:


IMG_5146 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5145 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5143 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr
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Old 12-15-11, 07:17 PM
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I'm going to hazard a guess that the 105 group was put on 10-15 years after the frame was made. The group dates late 80s or very early 90s, but the frame says 70s to me:

- Fancy (Nervex?) lugs should've been an endangered species by the late 80s
- Brazed on cable guide above the BB (by the late 80s most frames had plastic cables guides under the BB)
- Rear brake cable braze-ons below the top tube. I have a 70s French bike with similar cable guides

I am by no means an expert and may be completely wrong on all points, so feel free to correct me, but I believe what I said is accurate.
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Old 12-15-11, 07:22 PM
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OH yeah no way that group came on that frame. alot of lower to mid level FD used to have a housing stop with on the mounting bracket. I wonder how well this shifts....
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Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
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Old 12-15-11, 07:26 PM
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I've never seen a Japanese bike with Nervex lugs, I think it's European. Of course you don't often see European frames with Japanese dropouts, either...
Fork might be a replacement.
You're welcome for all my expert advice.
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Old 12-15-11, 07:48 PM
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Thanks for the help so far

Just found some kind of stamping on the top of the bottom bracket, between the cable guide and the chainring.

I'll pull the crankset, see if I can figure it out and post a photo later...
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Old 12-15-11, 11:24 PM
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Bottom bracket details, EDA stamped into the top of the bottom bracket...is that the bb manufacturer?


IMG_5156 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5150 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr
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Old 12-16-11, 01:16 AM
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Given the very large size and complete lack of serial number, I'm going to take a wild guess that this was a custom build for someone long ago. All you've got to go on is EDA stamped in the BB shell.

Since you don't have any originality to preserve and the paint looks pretty awful anyway I'd probably strip it and spray paint it, rebuild, then put it up for sale at $175. The size decreases the value, you might get less if only one person responds and need to sell it.
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Old 12-16-11, 07:30 AM
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+1, the components post date the frame by about a decade or more. I'm really suporised there is no serial number as the it does appear to be a mass produced frame. FWIW, the lugs, top tube cable stops and rivet hole pattern all suggest a butchered Raleigh. The seat post size and dropout branding may provide additional clues.
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Old 12-16-11, 07:49 AM
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if your getting into the road bike flipping business, I would suggest stripping this and using the parts on a newer and more compatible frame and perhaps a better size like a 56 (more sellable too). if you came across a nice Chromoly frame with older non index shifting you could swap this stuff on to it.
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Old 12-16-11, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
+1, the components post date the frame by about a decade or more. I'm really suporised there is no serial number as the it does appear to be a mass produced frame. FWIW, the lugs, top tube cable stops and rivet hole pattern all suggest a butchered Raleigh. The seat post size and dropout branding may provide additional clues.


Dropouts are Suntour GS rear, front Tange TF with tange fork stamped Tange 6H...

Seatpost size is 26.4

I was thinking Raleigh before as well, don't know of any other badges using three rivets on the headtube, so I compared it to another Raleigh I've got hanging in the shop; headbadge lines up almost prefectly. Frame design is also very similar, but the lack of serial number has got me baffled.

Stripped the frame/fork down and took new photo's...


IMG_5159 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5163 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5160 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5167 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr





Also realized there are two brake bridge mounts! Does that give us any more information?



IMG_5166 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5165 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr
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Old 12-16-11, 01:04 PM
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Fork crown detail's and photo's: Tange 6H stamped fork with Tange TF dropouts.


IMG_5176 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5177 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5179 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5180 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5181 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr
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Old 12-16-11, 01:30 PM
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Looks like a high end Japanese frame the 70's that someone repainted and built up with nicer used components during the 90's. It's hard to tell from just pics but it looks like the repaint covered up obscured the the serial number towards the front of the BB on the underside. I have seen several nicer Japanese bikes with similar lug work and dropouts. Plus it looks like someone changed the fork and welded on a second brake bridge to accomadate 700c's and shorter reach brakes.

Last edited by zukahn1; 12-16-11 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 12-16-11, 05:38 PM
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Pulled all the components today and stripped the frame of all paint...trying to locate ANY serial number.

Too dark for photo's, I'll post some up tomorrow...still no serial numbers though??!?!?
Any ideas?
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Old 12-16-11, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by zukahn1 View Post
Plus it looks like someone changed the fork and welded on a second brake bridge to accomadate 700c's and shorter reach brakes.
Whoa! Whoa! Two-two-two br-brake br-bridges! Whatever you have, you've got a solid rear triangle now!

Hm. I wonder if you can still fit 27s on there?

My thinking was that the brazing looked a little sloppy for a higher end bike. Could the cable guide on the bb also have been a later edition?
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Old 12-16-11, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Roll-Monroe-Co View Post




Whoa! Whoa! Two-two-two br-brake br-bridges! Whatever you have, you've got a solid rear triangle now!

Hm. I wonder if you can still fit 27s on there?

My thinking was that the brazing looked a little sloppy for a higher end bike. Could the cable guide on the bb also have been a later edition?


The lower brake bridge was not original...I'll check 27's tomorrow as well as examine the bottom bracket cable guide.
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Old 12-17-11, 12:26 PM
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Well, the post size indicates it's better than hi-tensile, but still a plain gauge tubeset. The front fork is almost certainly a 700C replacement fork, so that doesn't help.
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Old 12-17-11, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Roll-Monroe-Co View Post
My thinking was that the brazing looked a little sloppy for a higher end bike. Could the cable guide on the bb also have been a later edition?
we all have our own definition of what a high-end bike is, but this isn't one. Middle of the road, which at this time was pretty good. Doesn't surprise me that a production frame (or any C&V frame for that matter) would have sloppy brazing. Tools not jewels.
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Old 12-17-11, 01:30 PM
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Naked bike photo's right here...still no serial number's to be found anywhere.

Bottom bracket is stamed EDA and the number 2...



IMG_5182 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5185 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5183 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5186 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5187 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5190 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5188 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5192 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5191 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5189 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr
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Old 12-17-11, 01:31 PM
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More raw bike photo's...



IMG_5193 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5194 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5195 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5197 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5203 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr


IMG_5204 by imanngineart@yahoo.com, on Flickr
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Old 12-17-11, 01:34 PM
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Based on the later addition of a second lower brake bridge I'm positive the fork was added later, other than that all I'm gathering from everyone's input is some kind of '70's frame? Does the location of the headbadge rivets define it as Raleigh or did other companies use three rivets as well?
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Old 12-17-11, 02:02 PM
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Rear dropouts also appear to be replacements... like the second brake bridge and cable guide on the bottom bracket, the work appears to have been done by a novice frame builder.
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