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Please help me identify my benotto!

Old 12-17-11, 03:12 PM
  #1  
dicko3000
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Please help me identify my benotto!

I was given this bike in ~2007 in a shoddy state. All I know about it from the previous owner was that he said he had it since the late eighties.

I really love this bike and don't care if it is mexican or italian but am really curious to know exactly what it is. The twisted tubing makes it very unusual from what I have seen.

I would really like to know:

What model this is?
What Columbus frame is it?
When it was made?
Roughly how much it is worth?
Does the SR on the seat post refer to super record?
What is the identity of the campag crank?
What is the identity of the campag hub?

I have been struggling to find info on the bike over the past few weeks and apart from finding a couple of pictures of similar bikes I have found no answer. I would really, really appreciate any help. I have attached some pictures more can be found here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dicko30...7628459402717/

Some more info:
There is a number 1 on the bottom bracket
There is the name SILVA on the bottom of the seat stay bridge
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Old 12-17-11, 03:53 PM
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do you have a pic of the seatpost? I suspect it is a SR brand seatpost.

the frame is likely some custome drawn SL

the cranks may be Croce de Anue, the hub pic is jut too close to tell for sure but it looks like either Croce de Anue or R-Rec

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Old 12-18-11, 09:35 AM
  #3  
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hello,
thanks for the reply. did you see the pics on flickr? I don't have the original saddle/seat post.
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Old 12-18-11, 02:59 PM
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Quite sure it is Croce d'Aune hubs and the crankset as well, the C-record hubs have countersunk spoke holes. The SR on the seatlug looks like the SR logo of Sakae Ringyo company. Interesting bike!
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Old 12-19-11, 11:16 AM
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thanks terrors for the croce d'aune tip, means I can start filling in the gaps with the correct campag set. would be strange if SR logo was Sakae Ringyo as there is nothing else on the bike that points to this?
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Old 12-19-11, 11:21 AM
  #6  
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ps. looks like this bike on velospace https://velospace.org/node/37225
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Old 12-19-11, 01:11 PM
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dicko, go to this site for a complete view and more info on Croce d'aune ( pronounce (crochet dune-A i think)

https://www.velobase.com/ViewGroup.as...4-a05b1e58b328
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Old 12-19-11, 02:47 PM
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While the decals indcate SL, I have some reservations. First is the placement. I've never seen one on the top tube. Second is the decal style. That's a pre-1988 decal, but the Benotto decals are newer and so are the Croce d'Aune parts, if OEM. Third is the border color of the decal. It looks black rather than blue but that could just be camera exposure. To try and confirm the tubing, I'd check the seat post size and check inside the bottom of the fork's steerer colum gor Columbus' five helical ridges.

Several other things bother me, notably the cheap looking and poorly attached cable entrance guide. That looks like something from a low end model. I also wouldn't expect a seat lug with a heavy SR logo cast into it. The bottom bracket shell also has the square cut ends, typical of a lower end product. The Gipiemme dropouts point towards something a bit better, as they were typically found on mid-range models. Yet is has a front derailleur tab, lots of chrome and decent components, pointing toward something higher end.

My gut reaction was early 1990s. If it is 1980s, it's very late in the decade. The Croce d"aune, if original would give a fairly narrow period, as it was only manufactured from 1988-1991. In fact, the 61 code on the crankarm indicates 1990.
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Old 12-19-11, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
While the decals indcate SL, I have some reservations. First is the placement. I've never seen one on the top tube. Second is the decal style. That's a pre-1988 decal, but the Benotto decals are newer and so are the Croce d'Aune parts, if OEM. Third is the border color of the decal. It looks black rather than blue but that could just be camera exposure. To try and confirm the tubing, I'd check the seat post size and check inside the bottom of the fork's steerer colum gor Columbus' five helical ridges.

Several other things bother me, notably the cheap looking and poorly attached cable entrance guide. That looks like something from a low end model. I also wouldn't expect a seat lug with a heavy SR logo cast into it. The bottom bracket shell also has the square cut ends, typical of a lower end product. The Gipiemme dropouts point towards something a bit better, as they were typically found on mid-range models. Yet is has a front derailleur tab, lots of chrome and decent components, pointing toward something higher end.

My gut reaction was early 1990s. If it is 1980s, it's very late in the decade. The Croce d"aune, if original would give a fairly narrow period, as it was only manufactured from 1988-1991. In fact, the 61 code on the crankarm indicates 1990.
T-mar is soo smart! I was curious about the Columbus decal too as I thought that tubing would have been late '80s but since i am no Benotto expert I thought it and its placement could be ligit.

As for the owner trying to piece togather a Croce de Anue (CdA) group.... Personally I would keep what you have and if you really want all Campi fill in with either Victory or early Athena. CdA bits are not easy to come by and can be pricey. also there is a part on the brakes that I believe is a know failure point and replacements are scarce as good presidential candidates.
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Old 12-20-11, 10:20 AM
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hey thanks,

the bike was purchased new by the previous owner but I am not sure exactly when, he said late eighties. I am not sure whether the parts on it are original or replacements but the 61 code does point to 1990. When I got the bike it had a bunch on old shimano stuff on it, which I have since lost But again not sure if they were the original parts or not.

Either way apart from taking off the peeling colour decals when I was given it I haven't messed with the columbus decals. I would strongly suspect that these are the original decals applied when the bike was made.

Could we be looking at an older frame with newer components.

Are old catalogues available for benotto? I haven't found any?
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Old 12-20-11, 10:29 AM
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I am trying to decide what to do with the bike, the paint is knackered and I am wondering whether a respray would reduce it's value as a ?vintage bike?


ps. if you check out the velospace link above you can see what the decals used to look like.

pps. yep having checked on ebay putting together a vintage groupset may be expensive Thinking instead to get newish parts and build it up to look vintage'ish but be functional and safe, e.g. ditch the down tube shifters.
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Old 12-20-11, 11:07 AM
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Do remember the model of the Shimano parts? If you truly want to get to the nbttom of this, the next steps are to:

1. Check the seat post diameter.

2. Check inside the bottom of the fork's steering column for the presence of any ridges, and if so, how many.
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Old 12-20-11, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dicko3000 View Post
I am trying to decide what to do with the bike, the paint is knackered and I am wondering whether a respray would reduce it's value as a ?vintage bike?

pps. yep having checked on ebay putting together a vintage groupset may be expensive Thinking instead to get newish parts and build it up to look vintage'ish but be functional and safe, e.g. ditch the down tube shifters.
Considering the relatively poor condition and the fact that it has almost no components I would not worry about building it up with any specific group. I'd fit it with whatever budget components you can come up with and enjoy it as-is. I'm sure it'll be a great rider.
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Old 12-20-11, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
While the decals indcate SL . . . .To try and confirm the tubing, I'd check the seat post size and check inside the bottom of the fork's steerer colum gor Columbus' five helical ridges.
I thought SL, SP, SLX and SPX were all the same steel alloy, with SL and SLX being thinner-walled than SP and SPX, but that SL and SP had no ridges/rifling while SLX and SPX did. Am I wrong about that?
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Old 12-21-11, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
I thought SL, SP, SLX and SPX were all the same steel alloy, with SL and SLX being thinner-walled than SP and SPX, but that SL and SP had no ridges/rifling while SLX and SPX did. Am I wrong about that?
You are correct, with one exception, which I believe is the source of your confusion. Long before SLX and SPX, Columbus developed a butted steering column with five helical ridges to decrease weight while maintaining torsional strength. This steering column was used on SL and SP. In the early 1980s, when front derailleur tabs became popular, there was a rash of failures on SL seat tubes. The problem was solved by employing the helical ridge technology from the steering tube, in the bottom end of the seast tube. Shortly thereafter, the ridges were added to one end of the chainstays and down tube, to create SLX and SPX.

I don't know exactly when Columbus created the butted steering column with helical ridges, but it goes back into the 1960s, possibly further. So, unless it is very old or tretubi, every SL and SP frame will have helical ridges but only in the steering column, unless it is from the early 1980s on, in which case it may also have helical ridges in the seat tube. I trust this answers your question?
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Old 12-21-11, 09:05 AM
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I've been researching the OP's bicycle and have come up with a handful of others with similar Columbus decal placement, cable exit and profiled tubes, So, the Columbus SL decals do appear to be legitimate. None of the owners had a exact age on the bicycles, but most estimated late 1980s. The features were even present on one Cromor tubed model.

The interesting thing is that all the bicycles seemd to be either from Australia or Europe. This would explain the the earlier confusion, as they do not reflect the North American models of the era. However, there are still some differences. The models do not exhibit the muted Benotto decals nor the unicrown fork of the OP's. This would imply the OP's bicycle is probably at least very late 1980s. If so, Benotto carried over a lot of SL stock and/or were not rotating the tubeset decals.

As for the model, I can only comment on the North American format. There were three SL bicycles, with the model being determined by the component group. The model 3000 used Campagnolo Record. The 2500 used Shimano 600 and the model 1800 used Shimano 105.
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Old 01-22-12, 12:58 PM
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sorry for the late reply,

the decals have been removed - what you are seeing is the white undercoat.

the seatpost is 27.2 mm I think - at least that is the circumference of the replacement seat post i have used.

there are no ridges that i can see in the steering column. In the seat tube the only ridges are the obvious ones from the twisting of the steel frame that you can see from the outside.
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Old 01-22-12, 03:13 PM
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Where is this bike?
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