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Raleigh "Team" Copy?

Old 06-29-12, 11:21 PM
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jyl
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Raleigh "Team" Copy?

I'm looking at this frame and fork. This is the only picture I have so far. The serial number starts with "W" and the seller says it is mid-70's and has a 531 decal on the seat tube.

My guess is that it is one of the "Team Record" pretend Team bikes that Raleigh made, using the Team colors, and definitely not a genuine Team Professional. Call it a replica or a rip-off. But my guess is also that it is a decent frame, nice Campagnolo dropouts even if they do have decidedly non-Pro-ish eyelets, Reynolds 531 at least for the main triangle, pretty good condition for its age, made in the Carlton factory (that's what "W" means, right?).

Is that about right? What might it be worth, as in the "even if I don't find time to build it up, I definitely won't lose money on the resale" price?


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Old 06-30-12, 12:48 AM
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The Team Record Is low end, it wouldn't have 531 tubing, Campagnolo drops, or a Worksop serial number. I believe Team Professional frames with eyelets on the dropouts were made for the European market. Looks like the real deal to me.
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Old 06-30-12, 04:34 AM
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This is a Team Raleigh Record frame set and an unadulterated POS, in my opinion...



The bicycle presented by the OP is miles above the one I had.
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Old 06-30-12, 06:31 AM
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Raleigh certainly made it confusing for the aftermarket with a wide variety of bicycles sharing the Team Pro colors over the years. I have not yet figured out if all the Team Pros were fabricated at the SBDU shop or if some came from the W factory (which I think represented two different locations over time). Team Pros were definitely made with both 753 and 531 tubing. Some of the Team Pro Replicas were made with 531 as well and from what I can gather most of those runs were pretty nice bikes. The later versions marked 'Record' were, as noted, much less desirable. I'm not sure if the chrome forks/stays is a distinguishing factor. I don't think I've seen them on anything that has been positively identified as a Team Pro. In any case, the 531s with the W serial # definitely have some value. I've seen some nicer ones going in the $500-600 range as complete bikes. Don't have any idea of the frameset value, but from the lone pic that one looks to be in nice shape.
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Old 06-30-12, 08:29 AM
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Most people consider the SBDU bikes to be the genuine "Team Professionals," with the Worksop bikes regarded as replicas. This is partly a matter of nomenclature, but the SBDU was the super-cool special facility where all of the 753 bikes were built. Some Worksop bikes are as nicely constructed, but the cache isn't the same as with the bikes built under the direct stewardship of Gerald O'Donovan. A lot of the difference comes down to the fact that the SBDU did almost exclusively custom work. Later SBDU frames were built in Nottingham, where the Special Build unit relocated after Ilkeston was shut down.
Edit: It looks from the photo as if the bike in the OP has an oval Ilkeston SBDU decal on the chainstay, which is odd given the SN.
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Old 06-30-12, 11:49 PM
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I'd really like to see some close ups of the lugs.

I had a faux team Raleigh, different paint and no chrome, but I'd wager similar. From what I read at the time, they had a few different types of faux raleighs...

Team Records, easily identified.
Raleigh Competition frames in team paint
Raleigh Professional frames in team livery.

I had a Worksop Raleigh Pro in team paint, which I think is what yours is. Can you show us close ups of the DOs and lugs?

I sold mine for $600, frame/fork. If I had to guess, I did well and got lucky.
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Old 07-01-12, 08:56 AM
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It is not my bike, just one I am looking at.







What I'm seeing so far:
- Vinyl decals, with a thick edge around the letters, under a clear coat.
- Looks like the clear coat was sprayed over a bottom bracket cable guide, as the frame under the guide's former location is dull and the neighboring area is shiny.
- A Reynolds 531 decal, green "531", "forks stays butted", but the decal looks like vinyl too.

I'm starting to be cautious.

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Old 07-01-12, 09:04 AM
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I think my guess would be Competition at this point.
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Old 07-01-12, 09:24 AM
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One never knows with Reynolds decals. Saw a Surly Cross Check the other day with a Reynolds 631 sticker on it. Pretty sure Surly never made any such bicycle.
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Old 07-01-12, 10:12 AM
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I had my doubts until you showed us that close up of the drops.

Retrobike.uk has quite a few Raleigh Team threads with some good info

https://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/vie...asc&highlight=

https://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=202956
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Old 07-01-12, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
I think my guess would be Competition at this point.
That's my guess too...the lug work is definitely sloppier than my old Pro and the eyelets say not pro. It;s definitely up river from a Record
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Old 07-01-12, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
That's my guess too...the lug work is definitely sloppier than my old Pro and the eyelets say not pro. It;s definitely up river from a Record
I'm often tempted to think that the Competition level of frames was built by the guys waiting for the company vision plan to kick in, or by PX-10 guys involved in some kind of cross-Channel exchange program.
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Old 07-01-12, 11:47 PM
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Just to make sure I'm learning the right things - the head tube and seat tube lugs on a Team Pro would typically be long with windows, is that right?

Also, I've pored over pictures of Team Pros and the chrome stays look to be on the track bikes, not the road bikes. I've only seen a handful of Team Pro pictures showing the right chain stay part chromed, and none or maybe only one showing both sides' chain and seat stays chromed - and that one could have been a fake too.

I've heard over on the Yahoo group that some Euro-spec Team Pros did have eyelets, but no US-spec ones did, and those Euro bikes didn't have chromed stays.

Getting an education here! A Team Pro is on my grail list but I'm going to get learned up before parting with any significant $. I'm seeing a lot of fakes. It's worse than PX10s.
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Old 07-02-12, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
One never knows with Reynolds decals. Saw a Surly Cross Check the other day with a Reynolds 631 sticker on it. Pretty sure Surly never made any such bicycle.
The first CrossChecks were 631........a dark blue with a 1" headtube
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Old 07-02-12, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Just to make sure I'm learning the right things - the head tube and seat tube lugs on a Team Pro would typically be long with windows, is that right?

Also, I've pored over pictures of Team Pros and the chrome stays look to be on the track bikes, not the road bikes. I've only seen a handful of Team Pro pictures showing the right chain stay part chromed, and none or maybe only one showing both sides' chain and seat stays chromed - and that one could have been a fake too.

I've heard over on the Yahoo group that some Euro-spec Team Pros did have eyelets, but no US-spec ones did, and those Euro bikes didn't have chromed stays.

Getting an education here! A Team Pro is on my grail list but I'm going to get learned up before parting with any significant $. I'm seeing a lot of fakes. It's worse than PX10s.
As to the lugs, depends on the era of Team Pro. Some are long with windows; some not. As to chrome, the most desirable Team Pros are built with 753, which means no chrome whatsoever. The biggest clue is the serial number - Team Pros built at Ilkeston have SN's with an "SB" prefix.
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