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Good Deal? '84 Lotus supreme frame $250

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Good Deal? '84 Lotus supreme frame $250

Old 01-04-13, 12:27 PM
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scaldin
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Good Deal? '84 Lotus supreme frame $250

https://annarbor.craigslist.org/bik/3515790084.html

Not sure if the columbus SP is worth it...
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Old 01-04-13, 12:38 PM
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That is very pretty

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Old 01-04-13, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by scaldin View Post
https://annarbor.craigslist.org/bik/3515790084.html

Not sure if the columbus SP is worth it...
Nothing wrong with SP. Sometimes it was used on larger frames because its a bit stiffer than SL, which can get flexy on bigger frames. Looks good to me. Price is a little on the high end, especially without a BB included, but not outrageous.
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Old 01-04-13, 01:57 PM
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Value is a funny thing...is a high quality Columbus frame worth that to me? Absolutely...in terms of quality, yes...it's worth it.

However, in terms of market value, in my opinion that's too high for that frame on Craigslist, especially in a size like that. It's a perfectly nice frame, and they're nice bikes, but the value of that bike complete with SR bits in that size is probably around $700 or less, and the majority of the value is in the parts. I think he's going to have a very hard time selling that frame this time of year.

Ultimately the value comes down to whether it's worth it to you. I like Lotus bikes a LOT and have little doubt that it would build up into an excellent bike.
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Old 01-04-13, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Is it worth it? Sure, if it is exactly what you have been looking for. That's a really nice frameset.

Is it overpriced? For C/L, yes. Framesets on C/L just don't bring that kind of money, on ebay it might bring that much, but on C/L, very doubtful.

You might want to make a legitimate fair offer, and seller could come around to reality. I have done that several times on C/L, where it was something nice, but price was silly. About 50% of the time, the seller ends up calling back, often several weeks later.

All of this assumes paint is original, and bike has original headbadge. If not, forget it.
+1 -

Sample email:

Hey There,

I love the bicycle you're offering, but I just don't have the cash for it right now...I know it's a nice bike, but if you find yourself unable to sell it and would be willing to take $xxx, please let me know. Theoffer will stand and it will go to an excellent home.
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Old 01-04-13, 04:51 PM
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Depsite what the ad claims, that is not the Cinelli designed Lotus Supreme. That frame was manufactured by Tsunoda in Japan. 1984 sounds correct. SP was standard on the top end Lotus frames over 58cm. These are quite bicely made frames but Lotus was known more for their entry level and mid-range mass volume models. They never were really successful in cracking the high end, so there is no true prestige to this model. Consequently, I agree with the $150 offer.
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Old 01-04-13, 05:48 PM
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I have said the exact same thing when I am negotiating a price that I think is too high. I don't badmouth the bike but let them know what it is worth to me. Sometimes they take it, sometimes I go up just a little and sometimes the seller says no and I walk away.

Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Anymore, when I make an offer, I do not get in a debate on value. Instead I just honestly say: "This frame is worth $150 to me. It may be worth more to someone else. I can offer you $150 today, in cash, if you are interested." Of course, negotiations always best in person!!
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Old 01-04-13, 06:25 PM
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I watch these things carefully and that frame would sell for that price on eBay. Being a Lotus fan, I think it's worth $250.00 because it is a very high-quality frame (Campagnolo dropouts, Columbus tubing, chrome details), it appears to be in good condition, and Lotus is an appreciating marque. Of course, $150.00 would be a great deal if you could get it for that price.

Doesn't a Super Record headset alone usually sell for $50.00 to $100.00 or more on eBay?

What you will probably find with this frame is that it is impeccably brazed and finished, with high-quality paint and decals, using top-quality Italian tubing. If the decals were that of an Italian manufacturer people would be drooling all over it at four times the price.

The Lotus high-end models were indeed under-appreciated in their day, not because of quality issues, but more based on a lack of name recognition. People who wanted a high-end bike also wanted to pay for a high-end name. This is probably one reason why Lotus went with the Cinelli design after this 1984 model, to improve the Lotus name recognition. However, from the few models I have inspected personally, the Japanese frames are nicer made than the Italian frames. Indeed, this frame is not a Lotus Cinelli Supreme.

Other reasons I blame for the scarcity of the top-of-the-line Lotus racing bikes are their limited color selections and the fact that they were only available with tubular tires and rims. Some casual users just didn't want to deal with that potential inconvenience. When I purchased my Legend in 1980, the next models up were the 18-Speed Odyssey and the Competition racing bike. Even if I could affort the Competition, the tubular tires were a turn-off at the time for me.

This also makes some high-end Lotus bikes extremely rare. There are many models that in years of looking I have only found a few examples, some models I have never seen at all. When I see some other makers bikes touted as "rare" it almost makes me laugh, because I've seen dozens, or even hundreds of them for sale. I've been a fan of Lotus bikes since 1980, but it's been during the last four years that I have been obsessively collecting Lotus information (checking eBay and craigslist accumulator sites like searchtempest daily). I've recorded all of four 1984 Lotus Supreme bikes for sale. One was a frame, three were complete bikes and only one was all original. This frame for sale was from the most original, best condition 1984 Supreme I have seen, and unfortunately, it was parted out.

The 1984 bikes appeared with frame construction details different from the similar 1983 Lotus Tsunoda bikes, we suspect some frames in 1984 were not made by Tsunoda. The Tsunoda labels were replaced with simple silver "Made in Japan" labels on some models. Watch the chrome on the 1984 bikes, it appears to be of lesser quality than the similar 1983 models. This was another clue that the 1984 bikes were made by a different company than the 1983 Tsunoda models.

1983 Supreme models used a headbadge, 1984 used a decal (my avatar is a small version of the 1984 headtube decal). Both were only available in Violet, as on the frame in the listing.

Last edited by Snydermann; 01-05-13 at 08:58 AM.
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