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Tommasini Competizione 1991

Old 06-20-13, 08:18 PM
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Tommasini Competizione 1991

Hey there, I'm thinking of buying this 1991 Tommasini Competizione with all Shimano 600 components. Columbus SL tubing. The guy is asking $900 and I really just have no idea if thats a good or bad deal. Any advice would really be appreciated. Thats a lot of money to me but I'm really in love with the bike.


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Old 06-20-13, 08:19 PM
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Looks to be in super condition. I'd buy it.
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Old 06-20-13, 09:10 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

Does it fit well?

No dents or dings?

Buy it if all checks out.

Try offering $750 for grins first though.

Great riders, for sure.
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Old 06-20-13, 09:33 PM
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Thank you for the feedback and the welcome.

The bike looks new, apparently original owner barely used it. The fit is perfect at 55 cm. Lightest and best bike I've ever ridden.

Shifters are a little iffy apparently, unsure if thats a real cause for concern and if so, if replacements are pricey.

I've read Shimano 600 is a good group, but is it worth that much?

Also, new to the Columbus tubing game as well, so any info on Columbus SL tubing would also be appreciated.

Thanks again!
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Old 06-20-13, 10:04 PM
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600 is great, but for $900, i would want low-mile perfect duraace. Would offer $650 is the shifters cant be verifed as good
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Old 06-20-13, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by al13501350 View Post
Thank you for the feedback and the welcome.

The bike looks new, apparently original owner barely used it. The fit is perfect at 55 cm. Lightest and best bike I've ever ridden.

Shifters are a little iffy apparently, unsure if thats a real cause for concern and if so, if replacements are pricey.

I've read Shimano 600 is a good group, but is it worth that much?

Also, new to the Columbus tubing game as well, so any info on Columbus SL tubing would also be appreciated.

Thanks again!
The shifters might just need a good flush with wd40.

Be sure before you hand over $$$$, as they are spendy.

Google Columbus SL.

You'll find plenty of info.
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Old 06-21-13, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by al13501350 View Post

Shifters are a little iffy apparently, unsure if thats a real cause for concern and if so, if replacements are pricey.

I've read Shimano 600 is a good group, but is it worth that much?
Not a fan of the WD40 shifter "cure". But the good news is that they can be repaired, by the guy on facebook, at a reasonable cost. I have used Jim's service many times. Make sure the hoods are in good shape, those are getting hard to come by.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Shima...087082?fref=ts


On my keeper STI bikes, I have standardized on either 600 8 speed, or Dura Ace 8 speed. IMHO, 8 speed Shimano represents the sweet spot. First, 9 speed and above is not rebuildable (I have a box full of dead nine speed STI). Secondly, 8/9/10 speed all share the same spacing. Third, consumables for 8 speed are cheaper and some are more durable (think chain). Fourth, people are in love with higher speeds, and tend to be dumping their 8 speed stuff. 8 speeds are surely plenty for this old guy with a limited motor and limited budget.

$900 with shifter issues? Not a chance here. But I am very patient. I've never paid $900 for a bike yet, its over my limit.

Looks like you are buying from a bike shop. They haven't fixed the shifter issues on a bike at this pricepoint? Use that as a negotiating tool. Also reasonable to assume they did zero maintenance on it, so the bike, even looking really good, will likely need thorough maintenance: bb, wheel hubs, etc.

600 is a good group, not so much at this price point. I would expect DA or a high end Campy group at $900. I have a Competizione myself, a 1989. Mostly Dura Ace, with some 600 parts. Mine sat on C/L for about two weeks (it needed some love), at a very attractive price. So I drove four hours one way (obviously not local) to snag it.

As far as bikes go, the Tommasini worked its way into my keeper fleet (pushed out another bike). I like it.

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Old 06-21-13, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Not a fan of the WD40 shifter "cure". But the good news is that they can be repaired, by the guy on facebook, at a reasonable cost. I have used Jim's service many times. Make sure the hoods are in good shape, those are getting hard to come by.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Shima...087082?fref=ts


On my keeper STI bikes, I have standardized on either 600 8 speed, or Dura Ace 8 speed. IMHO, 8 speed Shimano represents the sweet spot. First, 9 speed and above is not rebuildable (I have a box full of dead nine speed STI). Secondly, 8/9/10 speed all share the same spacing. Third, consumables for 8 speed are cheaper and some are more durable (think chain). Fourth, people are in love with higher speeds, and tend to be dumping their 8 speed stuff. 8 speeds are surely plenty for this old guy with a limited motor and limited budget.

$900 with shifter issues? Not a chance here. But I am very patient. I've never paid $900 for a bike yet, its over my limit.

Looks like you are buying from a bike shop. They haven't fixed the shifter issues on a bike at this pricepoint? Use that as a negotiating tool. Also reasonable to assume they did zero maintenance on it, so the bike, even looking really good, will likely need thorough maintenance: bb, wheel hubs, etc.

600 is a good group, not so much at this price point. I would expect DA or a high end Campy group at $900. I have a Competizione myself, a 1989. Mostly Dura Ace, with some 600 parts. Mine sat on C/L for about two weeks (it needed some love), at a very attractive price. So I drove four hours one way (obviously not local) to snag it.

As far as bikes go, the Tommasini worked its way into my keeper fleet (pushed out another bike). I like it.

Nice Tommasini Bill.

Most of the 600/DA stis I have seen are just a little gunked from sitting.

The last bicycle I purchased with them was a 1988 Merckx that hadn't been ridden for over 10 years.

Once we cleaned the bicycle and the components, it was quite a difference in "feel."

It would also be a good idea to try Bill's idea for a rebuild.

Especially if you are planning to ride the bike the way you find it.

He's been down this road obviously and gives great advice.

I tend to swap most gruppos out for Campy 10 speed systems, so follow his wisdom.

Again, the bicycle needs to be gone through thoroughly.

If it fits and checks out, you could be in for a real treat.

If you don't get this one at a great price, there will be another nice one if you are patient.

Maybe not this model from Tommasini, but others pop up with some regularity.

PS Don't scrimp on all contact point items and this includes tires.

Makes a big difference on a great performing bicycle.

Good luck!
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Old 06-21-13, 06:37 AM
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Another rant on the WD40 shifter fix. Shimano used grease to provide the lubrication in their shifters. Unfortunately, over time, this grease hardens, and the shifters fail. Some use WD40 as a fix. Sure enough, it dissolves the gunked up grease, mission accomplished! But in doing so, it also removed any/all lubrication from inside your shifters. So now you are running shifters with no lubrication. Sure, you can drip something in like triflow or whatever, but are you really going to get it into every moving part on that shifter?

Instead, for a reasonable cost, you can have the shifter totally disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled with new grease, and any broken parts will be replaced along the way.

It is very sad to me that Shimano, a fine Japanese company, has chosen to produce and sell shifters that are meant to be thrown away when they no longer function well. And to make it worse, from what I understand, Shimano has chosen to have a lot more moving parts in their shifters than some of their competitors.

Go to any bike shop, and they can pull out a box (or boxes) full of dead Shimano shifters. Meanwhile, the cheaper, and simpler, downtube shifters can last just about forever. Progress....

Shimano 7700 STI parts, note, there are more than 28 parts per side, as some parts below have as many as five pieces to them. Your job, if you go the WD40 route, is to get an adequate amount of a long life lubricant into every nook and cranny of the shifter, or at the very least, to every potential wear point:


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Old 06-21-13, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post

Looks like you are buying from a bike shop. They haven't fixed the shifter issues on a bike at this pricepoint? Use that as a negotiating tool. Also reasonable to assume they did zero maintenance on it, so the bike, even looking really good, will likely need thorough maintenance: bb, wheel hubs, etc.
this.

probably a garage queen trade-in. I would guess that they bought the bike for $400 or less. I would expect the $900 price to be pretty firm.
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Old 06-21-13, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Another rant on the WD40 shifter fix. Shimano used grease to provide the lubrication in their shifters. Unfortunately, over time, this grease hardens, and the shifters fail. Some use WD40 as a fix. Sure enough, it dissolves the gunked up grease, mission accomplished! But in doing so, it also removed any/all lubrication from inside your shifters. So now you are running shifters with no lubrication. Sure, you can drip something in like triflow or whatever, but are you really going to get it into every moving part on that shifter?

Instead, for a reasonable cost, you can have the shifter totally disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled with new grease, and any broken parts will be replaced along the way.

It is very sad to me that Shimano, a fine Japanese company, has chosen to produce and sell shifters that are meant to be thrown away when they no longer function well. And to make it worse, from what I understand, Shimano has chosen to have a lot more moving parts in their shifters than some of their competitors.

Go to any bike shop, and they can pull out a box (or boxes) full of dead Shimano shifters. Meanwhile, the cheaper, and simpler, downtube shifters can last just about forever. Progress....

Shimano 7700 STI parts, note, there are more than 28 parts per side, as some parts below have as many as five pieces to them. Your job, if you go the WD40 route, is to get an adequate amount of a long life lubricant into every nook and cranny of the shifter, or at the very least, to every potential wear point:

Precisely what my guy does at the shop.

There are a few folks that will do this maintenance locally, as it is the last thing they really want to do.

The right thing to do if you want the unit to survive, but time intensive for a guy that's being held accountable in half hour increments.

The software at the shop schedules by the half hour and times a wasten to build bikes and get them on the floor.

BTW The wd40 is more of an "in the field trick" at muddy/snowy/wet cyclocross races. I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys come in with Ergos/STIs filled with gunk after a heat.

Two things happen.

A water blast and a shot of wd40 if they are running in additional heats that day.

Granted, they get rebuilt later that week, but it is a short term fix.
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Old 06-21-13, 08:49 AM
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Hey guys, thank you so much for the feedback. I'm humbled by your expertise and willingness to help.

You hit it right on the money, the owner admitted that he flushed out the shifters with WD40 and they came back to life. It is coming from a bike shop and at first they had mentioned they would replace the shifters, but now that they have come back to life, they are trying to sell as is, which annoyed me of course.

I was stunned how light the bike is as this is my first foray into a real quality bicycle. My current ride is a 1978 Schwinn Le Tour 3 so its like night and day.

My own long term plans for the bike were to slowly replace the components with campy components over time as funds became available.

The store was originally asking $999 and I was able to bring it down to $900 with a bit of talking, but I still didn't feel comfortable since the shifter situation spooked me.

Right now, this bike is the other one I'm interested in, especially as the owner is willing to sell at $550:
https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bik/3862818420.html

Again, thanks for your advice. It will all be used as ammunition for negotiation, and if I do decide to purchase, as guidance to what to do next.
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Old 06-21-13, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by al13501350 View Post
Hey guys, thank you so much for the feedback. I'm humbled by your expertise and willingness to help.

You hit it right on the money, the owner admitted that he flushed out the shifters with WD40 and they came back to life. It is coming from a bike shop and at first they had mentioned they would replace the shifters, but now that they have come back to life, they are trying to sell as is, which annoyed me of course.

I was stunned how light the bike is as this is my first foray into a real quality bicycle. My current ride is a 1978 Schwinn Le Tour 3 so its like night and day.
Bike shops around here tend to ask (and get) prices that are 50% to 75% higher than the private seller market value. I have sold several bikes on consignment through bike shops. I pay them a 25% to 33% fee, and still end up way ahead. The last bike I sold on consignment, the shop sold for $400. I would have gotten $225 max for it, and it would have taken me a while to sell. Instead, I got $300. If they weren't so flaky, I would sell all my bikes that way.

As far as the "light weight", its really nothing unusual. High end vintage bikes are A LOT lighter than that old Schwinn, night and day. Its a reasonable guide on whether the bike was high end. I had a steel frame 1984 Lotus (Champion 1 frame) that weighed within a half pound of a 2007 Trek 1000 with an aluminum frame and carbon fiber fork.

At the $900 price point for a used bike, you can really get some incredible bikes. In my market, that will get you a bike with a Columbus SLX frame, full Dura Ace components, and quite a bit of money left in your wallet. The best deals on C/L tend to be the high end stuff. Everyone is looking for a $100 bike, and even the crappy ones sell. Few are looking for anything $300 or higher, and those that are looking, tend to want a newish bike (think 2007 or newer). As a result, I tend to be a BUYER of the high end stuff around here. I have picked up everything from a Colnago Master Light, a Batavus Professional, the Tommasini, Eddy Merckx, Waterford Paramount (full SLX and DA), and more, at prices that were very attractive. In every case, the price paid for a complete bike was less than what the framesets go for on ebay.

Adjust my figures up for NYC of course.

Need to look outside NYC if you possibly can. You are in one of the most expensive bike markets in the US. 60 miles away could save you a lot of money.

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Old 06-21-13, 09:06 AM
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That bottechia is wayyyyyy over priced, even for NYC. Incomplete, frankenbike, lowend components,missing chain. How are you going to test ride this? Plus its a cyclocross bike.



If you are patient, you should be able to score a fantastic vintage Italian bike for $550
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Old 06-21-13, 09:37 AM
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Glad to hear about the Bottechia, so I don't waste gas money on heading to New Jersey to see it.

Unless the owner of the Tommasini is lying, it is not in consignment Bike shop owner sold it to original owner, then bought it back as part of a trade in.

And to your point of traveling, I actually just got a pick up 2 months ago and have been looking all over in CT (Tommasini is in New Haven), NJ, Philadelphia, and upstate NY. I'm specifically looking for vintage italian bikes and been actively looking now for about 3-4 weeks. I'll have to continue searching and be patient.

Funny you mentioned Batavus Professional. My coworker was lucky enough to score one of those off one of our VPs for $250! I wanted to swoop in and offer more but that would have just been a jerk move. I'm so jealous when he rides that bike to work.

My wife's brother lives in Asheville, and from your location description I'm guessing you might live in that area as well. I'm going to start looking down there too!

Thanks again gentlemen.
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Old 06-21-13, 12:10 PM
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Trade in and consignment is pretty similar. Consignment bikes sometimes enjoy the benefit of recent maintenance, trade ins tend to be as they arrived to the shop, with the exception of flats being repaired.

I live about 25 miles from Asheville.
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Old 06-24-13, 03:00 PM
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Alright guys, quick update:
I was able to bring the price down to $800 ($750 with tax; mentioned he wanted to do it this way because registration will be mine? So if bike gets stolen at least registration is under my name. Unsure how legit of a statement that is).

Confirmed bike will get a full tune up (cleaning, lubrication, tire truing), but will not get a complete overhaul.

Confirmed campy dropouts, something I forgot to mention before.

What do you guys think? I know some were down with the $900 price while some people were recommending to wait til I see something pop up in the $500-$600 area.

Another bike in my relative area (Philadelphia) has popped up, granted this would require at least 1.5 hour trip to even see it.
https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/3843761236.html

Thanks again for the feedback.
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Old 06-24-13, 03:19 PM
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My concern with the Tommasini are the shifters. Yes, you can have them rebuilt, that's not that expensive. But are you comfortable removing them, disconnecting all the cables, mailing them out, getting them back, reinstalling them, adjusting them, and so on?

One option is to have the shop replace the shifters with new units. Note the new 8 speed shifters are at the bottom of the product line! I would then send out your old shifters (don't let the shop keep them), mail them out for a rebuild at your leisure. Note, the lower end new shifters are functionally fine, so they will work on the bike.

At that point, I would rather have the Tommasini.

I really like that era 600, much better than the prior era on the Pinarello.

What I like about the Tommasini:

The paint colors, WOW. When I think of an Italian bike, I think of flamboyant paint schemes. The paint scheme on that Pinarello is very boring....

The newer 600 components.

A lot more chrome (I am a sucker for chrome).

STI (once it is functional), I like riding with STI, and with that 8 speed group in particular (along with 8 speed DA).

Tires look fresh (tires on Pinarello look O L D.)

What I like about the Pinarello:

Its cheaper.

DT shifters = no shifter issues.

But I am not leaving the shop with a Tommasini where the shifters are sketchy. And now you know they are that way, a short term fix (blasting them with WD40) is just pushing the problem to later. Problems with balky STI shifters is VERY irritating. Just when you need to make a shift, they stick on you, forcing you to ride up a steep hill in the way wrong gear, or whatever.

As a bare minimum, have them agree to remove the shifters for you, you send them off, and have them agree to reinstall them.

The one issue that really concerns me is your desire to replace all the components over time with Campy. If that is still your plan, myself, I am buying an Italian bike that already has the Campy group you want on it. You are really close price wise to what Campy equipped bikes bring on ebay.

Myself, I like the tricolor bits just fine.

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Old 06-24-13, 06:50 PM
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Bill, thanks again for your input. I appreciate the concern for changing out to a campy group, as realistically this will not be anytime soon and I should embrace the 600 group.

I will go ahead and suggest exactly what you outlined above to the owner. Hey, if they want to sell it, its not a ridiculous request at all.

I also have a side question: I've spotted some campy Super Record Pista pedals in my area at a reasonable price. Will these fit on the Shimano 600 group? I'll have to get some quality pedals and these seemed nice.

Thanks again.
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Old 06-26-13, 02:21 PM
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Well it was obviously not meant to be. Bike had been sitting in shop for months and I just called to let the guy know that I'd like to pick it up tomorrow, and the bike is sold! Oh well, thank you everybody for their input.

Now I absolutely am obsessed with finding a Tommasini. If anyone has any leads, PLEASE let me know. Thank you.
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Old 06-26-13, 03:29 PM
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There are plenty of other comparable brands. My advice is to be open to all of them, and instead, just find a nice bike, in your size, at an acceptable price. At the price point you were at, even bikes on ebay can compete.

Myself, I rarely look for a specific brand. As a result, I have been introduced to many brands that were not on my "list", like Tommasini.

When I have locked into a specific model in a specific size, it has tended to be expensive, so I try to avoid it. And so many companies made some terrific bikes, its hard to near impossible to know them all.
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Old 06-26-13, 03:35 PM
  #22  
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Try a spray lube instead of wd-40. You just need to get the cogs to toggle. Just pulled a bike that's been in the bushes for 5 years and the 600'sti is working great after a light flush.
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Old 06-27-13, 08:24 AM
  #23  
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You earned your nickname for a reason Bill!

That Pinarello is now accepting $500 OBO. Also have this Ciocc in my area:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/221246302191...84.m1423.l2648

Any thoughts on the Ciocc? SL tubing for $500 doesn't sound too shabby.
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Old 06-27-13, 09:49 AM
  #24  
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That CIOCC is likely going higher from here. I see rust on some fasteners, a sign of neglect. Prepare to put some rehab $$ into it. My interest would be in the Pinarello instead!!


In general, I find better deals on high end bikes locally than I do on ebay. Typically, a high end bike will bring about HALF of the ebay price and have the advantage I can see it in person, make sure it fits, check for "surprises", etc.


Note, I define "local" as driving distance. So Charlotte and Atlanta are relatively "local" to me, even though they each are well over 2 hours one way away. And some were actually in my town: Colnago Master Light, Merlin, Eddy Merckx, Gazelle Mondial, etc.

One thing about the SE, tolls are pretty rare (until you get to Florida).


That Pinarello is looking pretty interesting! Someone is going to grab it! Or best offer = wants to move it. That's what happened on the Tommasini I picked up. It sat on C/L for a couple of weeks, ad got revised, price dropped, and seller was asking "make me an offer". So I called him, explained because of my drive, someone local could pay more than me, but here's my offer. He accepted, and I got in the car and started driving.

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Old 06-27-13, 10:28 AM
  #25  
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The Ciocc was actually listed on Craigslist first, and its hard to tell whether someone purchased it and is now reselling. But I was in touch with them at first through Craigslist and the seller claimed to be having trouble communicating with potential buyers and then the listing disappeared. Not sure how the heck they'll be able to manage eBay if they can't figure out Craigslist.

As for the Pinarello, I've looked at various Treviso's both here on the forum and other online sites, and the majority seemed to be made of Columbus SL tubing (or at least make this claim). Was that standard at the time for this model? I've asked the owner of this one to confirm what the Columbus tubing sticker says: ""tubi rinforzati garantiti" "acciaio speciale". He wasn't sure of the specific type though.

And I agree, the Pinarello definitely keeps getting more and more attractive. Its at least a 90 minute drive with probably around $50 worth of tolls plus gas so I'm trying to get as much information about the bike as possible.

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