New to the vintage world
 

Hey guys,

I am current bicyclist but do not own a C&V bike yet. Come here looking for advice. I've seen the beauties you guys post up and they are defintiely breathtaking! I know C&Vs can range from $100 to $10k. I however want to start with something low budget and go up as I learn.

Initially I saw a 1987 centurion Ironman Dave Scott for sale in my vicinity for $150. I wanted to buy it so bad but I tried contacting the guy and he never answered emails, texts or calls.

Centurion:

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/bik/4101695147.html

So now I found this Bianchi. I think it should be about my size. I am 5'11" and ride a 56 Roubaix. I like the bike that is posted but I have no idea if it is a good deal or not. Some components don't seem to be from the era (concerns me) and the price isn't really what I would call cheap. The centurion looked better and was less than half the price. I am, however, in love with the celeste frame! Below is the link.

Bianchi

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/bik/4174121588.html

Added: Saw this Panasonic and I really like it! Not sure about the size but looks to be in good condition. If it were to be my size 54-56, what should I offer?

Panasonic:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/bik/4137565022.html

Well now I just keep adding when I see something pretty... let's say that out of the ones I keep posting which one would you go for and how much would you pay?

Peugeot

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/bik/4140422873.html

I am not focused on any specific brand. Ideally I'd like something along the lines of a Panasonic, Peugeot, Nikishi, bianchi, centurion, colnago, cinelli. I know some will fit the budget ($300) some will not. There are tons of brands I just dont know. I'd like for the bikes to have period correct componentry and something that is sturdy and fairly reliable.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Luis

The big thing to keep in mind with the old French bikes is that they had a lot of oddball specs that were specifically and uniquely French. There are some neat bikes in there, but it can make finding components that much more difficult.

Toward the end [late '80s], Peugeot had mostly fallen into line with the English/Japanese standard sizing. Remaining wildcard was seatpost diameter (but that's always a wildcard, no?).

I have a feeling this C&V thing could turn out to be another addiction :) A good one too. The peugeot looks great. But so far on the top of my list are the bianchi (depending on your opinion of the bike) and the Panasonic.

The first picture of the Panasonic makes the fork looks a little funny. Definitely check that out; feel the downtube and top tube to make sure there's no buckling at all and eyeball the fork to make sure it's in line with the head tube. My hunch is it's just the picture angle. Other than that caveat, I would go for that bike. It's not a crazy screaming deal but that's a really solid bike with good components that's in good shape (as long as that fork thing checks out). The Panasonics that I've ridden have been some of the best riding bikes I've been on. They also built some of the best riding Schwinns of the '80s and I'm pretty sure they built frames for Centurion as well...so you're not that far, really, from that Ironman that got away.

I thought the panasonic looked the best in terms of condition and componentry as well. I could probably get it for 250 which wouldn't hurt.

I would keep fit and bike condition as your priorities. After that, look for something as original as possible (looks like you know that), which adds to resale value and makes it easier to sourcce parts.

Schwinn has some Panasonic-made really sweet bikes and Fujis, Univega, and Miyatas can be very nice too. The mid-eighties seem to be the sweet spot for what you are looking at. Familiarize yourself with the frame materials and components that came with the mid- to upper end bikes. Checking out catalog scans is a great way to fritter away your life.

I am not sure how it works in the fit department. Would a 1980s 56cm be the same as today's 56cm? Not sure if they used TT or ST for measures.

Here is a cinelli that I found now:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/bik/4170634622.html

Looks a little beaten and probably too big for me. Doesnt say size.

Welcome to the forums and the C&V community.

The Bianchi is an '88 frameset most likely a Campione de Italia, the Formula Two tubing frames were used across a lot of models, But the Ofmega HS sort of narrows it down. Nothing seems to be original except the HS and maybe the seatpost. This frame came in a 56 then a 59 so be careful of the sizing. The older steel Bianchis were measured center BB shell to top of the seatpost. This may be a 59 so alittle on the tall side compared to the other bikes.

Of the three, Centurion, Panosonic and Bianchi it will likely be the best rider, thos Formula Two frames ride pretty good. That Centurian is a pretty popular bike, but it looks small compared to the Panosonic.

http://images.craigslist.org/01414_f...iZ_600x450.jpg

The Cinelli is a pretty big frame, much larger than a 56. It's got some really nice parts on it though. If you're willing to do a lot of wrenching, you could buy a couple of bikes for the parts you need and sell everything else off. More work and more initial cash out of your pocket but with patience you could come up with a nice machine for a very low price.
I would want to get more information about the Cinelli frame. I'm not a Cinelli expert by any means but the head lugs don't look like any I've seen other Cinellis.
Sizing then was usually seattube measured center to center. Maybe around the late eighties bike companies started measuring center to top. The top tubes were usually close to the same length as the seattube but not always.

Thank you for the warm welcome :). Good info. a 59 would be way out of my fitting size. I am actually looking on the smaller side. If I can get a 54-56 I can also share is with my fiancee (she is almost 5'8"). Whereas if I go up from a 56 it'd be a little stretch even for me. I'm not sure of sizing on any of them. For some reason people do not post them on CL... wonder why? this could narrow so many choices.

At first glance the cinelli definitely looked big. I like the group more than anything else. Having old campy, on an old italian frame definitely speaks volumes to me but I am not really a connoisseur.

I really need to get up to speed on my C&V metrics, groups and frames. I did find this beauty but out of budget. Although, if it's something like a really good deal I may stretch the budget. This, I think, may be on a whole different level.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/bik/4151808080.html

I am a PUCH / Austro Daimler fan... this keeps me inline from buying everything under the sun...

If you decide your addiction has a narrow spectrum then it may control how many you purchase.

I admit to having only I think...maybe 11ish?

Lots of people selling bikes on CL simply have no idea what size the bike is. I wouldn't go near that Guerciotti especially at $900. back in the very early '90s the only two I ever saw were broke, one of the joints came apart.

http://images.craigslist.org/00U0U_d...LR_600x450.jpg

The Cinelli is way too big, I'd say it's about a 63cm. The Bianchi looks to be your best bet, IMO. The Panasonic looks good too but I don't know that much about them. The Peugeot looks to be a 1985 model, probably has standard threading, but, it has what appears to be plain gauge 103 tubing, pretty heavy and lower end P8/P9.

I agree with busdriver1959, the best deals are buying complete bicycles and frames locally and picking what you need and selling the rest..
http://www.bikeforums.net/images/sta...er-offline.png
After selling what I didn't need on the last bike I bought, I paid about $30 for all these parts below

Nitto Technomic stem 90mm
Nitto Randonneur 44cm handlebars
Cane Creek SCR-5 aero brake levers w/ gum hoods

Cinelli bar tape
Suntour Superbe long reach brakes
Avocet Air 40W saddle
SRAM PC48 8 speed chain
6 speed wide range freewheel, 12-32
700c wheelset w/ Shimano hubs
Panaracer Pasela Tires x2 32


I want to upgrade to 8 speed, so that I can use the Ultegra brifters that I have... I will probably end up buying a bike and parting it out just for the wheel set.


The Cenelli for $350 minus the pedals looks like a good deal. If it is a Cenelli, you could sell the frame for $200.. and you have a lot of Campagnolo bits for $150

Is that even a Cinelli? For all I know it might be, I'm no expert, but it looks like the kind of ad where it gets called Cinelli because that's what the stem says. Sorry if that's unfair but it's how it strikes me. Also it looks like it was painted - poorly - with a brush. Who does that with a Cinelli? Otoh it may be worth it for the parts in any case, but that's pretty far afield from what the OP wanted.

Buying different bikes and piecing one together would be a cool project but i think that is a little advanced right now for me since i dont even know what i want. Ideally i'd buy an old cinelli or colnago with full campy but that costs money.

the guy from the panasonic called back and told me the bike is 23.5 of size with a 31.5 standover height... I did the math and it seems to be a 60cm frame? Im not sure how that relates to sizing...

I like the Centurian. It appears to be your size, too.

The Bianchi is too big.

The Peugeot is too big and low end.

The Panasonic has a hideous fork and I hate the graphics..

I'd get the Centurian and learn to live with the color scheme.

Looks British to me. Repainted, who knows what it could be, MKM, Bob Jackson, Carlton (less likely) Holdsworth…

The range of bike sizes in the adverts is all over the map. I really think finding the correct size range is the first thing.
Then noting that sellers often have no clue as to the bikes true measurements.

Believe me i'd definitely get the centurian if the guy answered my calls...

http://panasonicbikemuseum.info/wp-c...12/1988pg9.jpg
That sizing doesn't sound right to me. That bike came in 47, 51, 53, 56, 58, 61 and 64. I think the bike you're considering is a 56. Here's a pic of a 1988 DX-3000, 56 cm that I used to have:
http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3a894e91.jpg

Note the similarity in head tube length to the bike you're looking at:
http://images.craigslist.org/00I0I_l...Rk_600x450.jpg

Further, I don't have that bike any more, but I do have a 56 cm 1981 DX-4000, and the standover height on it is (you guessed it) 31.5".

Of course, we still don't know if that's the right size bike for you and/or your fiancee. Rather than giving us the size of your modern bike, how about telling us how tall you are, your inseam (crotch to floor, not pant inseam) and arm span. That would get you much more meaningful advice on fit.

Here's a different take that's worked for me, I've acquired my C&V kit by attrition.

Here's how: Buy a new bike that you like and ride it as much as you please, hopefully over several decades.
One day it's State-of-the Art, the next Obsolete, then Classic and eventually Vintage.

-Bandera

I publish MY "TEN SPEEDS" just for people like the OP, hoping to help newbies avoid making the host of mistakes that I have made over the years when it comes to vintage bicycles, acquiring, restoring and even riding.

If you are a modern-bike rodie be aware that when you go C&V you will be much faster. The only reason we don't ride that way most of the time is to avoid showing anyone up. :D

Welcome to C&V!
It's a slippery slope.

Thanks for the info. Really dig your ex-panasonic! The guy called and he seems very intereted in selling the bike, or he might just be a nice person. He said the bike is 57cm which is large. It is supposed to be in pristine conditions and rides like new. I really like it. My fiancee not so much. If I could get it for a good deal I wouldn't mind getting this one and another one further down the road. I assume I could probably pay 225-250 for this panasonic which doesn't seem bad to me.

I am 5'11". Dont know my inseam or arm length but ride a 56cm Roubaix with a shortened 100mm 7 degree stem (110mm factory). I have a pretty "normal" composition. I'd say probably a 33 inseam. My fiancee is 5'7" and change. she has a very long torso but long legs as well. Not sure where she would fall and telling you she has an hour glass shape probably doesn't do anything...

This is what I will do if my roubaix survives the racing seasons. She is already a little banged up but, hey, they are meant to be ridden. :)

This is awesome. I'll dig in! thanks

lol, I am afraid it's gonna happen like it did with my motorcycles. I had a 2013 Ducati with traction control, abs, blah blah blah and ended up falling in love with a 1997 ducati 748. Old, slow, bulky and clanky BUT with tons of caracter and soul! :)... I miss that bike so much, it's been at the repair shop for months!! Can't wait to ride a "proper" steel bike