Albert 4

Can anyone help me to identify this Italian frame,it is from the fiftie's, i have surched a lot on the internet but i cant find the name.
I tought myself maybe a Marastoni ore a Frejus frame.

Thanks for info.

randyjawa 

If the paint looks original and the downtube decal says Paletti, it just might be a Paletti.

Albert 4

No this is not a Paletti,that much i know,thanks.

randyjawa 

So you know for sure that it is not a Paletti, but do not know what it is. Strange. How do you know it is not a Paletti?

Albert 4

Because the decals are from the eightie's and not Original,and i contact Paletti by mail.
But please don't tell me what i allready have done i am not a complete idiot? thanks!

bikemig 

You were asked a question actually and it was a pretty good one.

Chombi

Uhmmmm.....It would have really helped if you mentioned that research you did on your first post....

Albert 4

The only thing i want to know is the name of this frame,i thought there where maybe some experts on this forum who can help me out.
And i have no desire in discussions wheter or not this is a Paletti? that it is not....

FastJake

Telling us the seatpost diameter might help. Also, how did you identify it as Italian? Are the BB threads and fork threading Italian? How did you identify it as from the 1950s?

A picture of the rear dropouts would also help.

Please keep in mind we are not trying to be a------- we are genuinely trying to help. The more info you provide the better we can help you.

Albert 4

Hello Jake,

I bought this frame from Italia,the thread is also Italian,Dropouts are very early Campagnolo,seatpost klem is also early 50, seatpost size 26mm.head set Magistoni 50ties,bracket iron Magistroni,frmae number 79451.
My frends (they have a lot of vintage bike knowledge) conferm the frame also as early 50.
See more pictures.

zukahn1

Well the lugs and 26.0 seatpost indicate a fairly nice 60's high end frame French or Italian likely 531 strait gage but I'm with the others on the frame that the basically unkown maker Paletti
made thnis bike.

Albert 4

Sorry,again this is not a Paletti pfffff.

These decals are there later mounted and absolutely not Original from the fiftie's,they are from the eightie's and you can get them off crabs with your nail.The brand Paletti is also not that old.

See picture with a Palletti bike from 1981 with the same decals!!

randyjawa 

Fear not, I will offer no more help to you.

repechage

The dropouts are not early 50's Campagnolo. They are the second tier units that came out later, the top end stuff was thicker, forged and had second step machining including an integral derailleur hangar and axle adjustment screws. The lug work was quite common, it could be any number of brands from the time, I would expand your search to the very late 50's - early 60's. Could be a Garlatti, but that is just a very quick stab. It is a second tier frame, as shown by the treatment of the stay and fork blade ends. Serial number stamped into the tubing directly was done by a number of brands. I would measure the center to center distance of the mounting holes for the missing head badge and show a few images of the head tube. There does appear to be a faint outline of what the headbadge was that might help. I doubt Columbus tubing, but Falck is not terrible either.

Albert 4

Hi Jake,

Yes i know that there where many frame builders that use these lugs,they where very nice.
I thought it was a Frejus frame becouse the head badge is matching the outline,but i never saw a Frejus frme with these lugs,and there are a lot more badges with that same contour/outline.
It is also not a Garlatti,the Garlatti head badge is different.Marastoni apears to have the same lugs but the head badge is different.
The outlining is not clear anymore,but one picture you can still see the outline a little bit.
thanks for this useful information.and i hope to hear more.
The exakt size is 6 cm center to center,inch i don't no sorry.

You still can see the round vague lines in the Original paint.

howsteepisit

Looks very similar to Atala frames from the early 1970s seen in the US, but thats a shot in the dark. I am basing on the lugs and the seat stay attachment style.

Chombi

It's also possible that being a "second tier" frameset, it could have been made by a contractor that was building frames for many other companies that were just putting their names on them to sell as their brand. A very common practice back then, especially by the mid sized and smaller bike companies. That is why maybe, you are seeing many similarities in details on other brand bikes that you are sure the bike did not have the same headbadge as your frame. If you search for the correct brand does result in a 100% sure identification, you can always opt to apply the brand decals that you think is the closest in chracteristics/details to your bike. For most collectors, that could bel be good enough for a "second tier" bicycle, but in the end, it's up to you.
Good luck, I do hope somebody does eventually recognizes the bike and tell you what it really is.

Albert 4

Hello Chomby,

Yes there where many frame builders who did also work for other brand bike's in these dayes.
The Marastoni bike is the most closest one i have found till now.
Thanks for your input.

FastJake

The lugs look similar to some lower end Bianchis from the 50s. But this frame is nicer than that. Not top of the line, but close to the top (in it's day.)

+1 The best Campy dropouts were forged and had the integral derailer hanger. It reminds me of a 1970s Atala also... Might want to do some searching and see if any Atalas look similar.

juvela

lugset is Agrati. the Campag Sport frame ends were used at least as late as the mid-'70's. spindle looks as if it may not be original due to the threads showing.

agreement with Chombi that it could very likely be a contract build. the crown is distinguishing in that have not seen it on but a very few machines.

the 26.0 pillar size indicates a base model. quality plain guage italian frames employ 26.2 and 26.4 mm pillars.

Albert 4

It is not Atala, Atala never used these type lugs, and also have a different head badge.
I think this frame is not from the seventie's, becouse the Magistroni head set on this frame is ever used in the 40s and 50s. (spindle also from Magistroni) The Campagnolo dropouts are not from that period (70s) i think older, Seatpost maybe a 26.2mm.

I didn't now the lugs are from Agrati,i also have a very rare and light Italian frame with Columbus tube (named Ercole Baldini) whit the same lugs onnly much bigger, no head badge?

Thank you guys for thinking.

sauze

Legnano? Looks a little like those odd / off green Legnano's. Love those bikes...

edit: Sort of like this