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Waterford Paramount Frame

Old 03-31-18, 04:24 AM
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Waterford Paramount Frame

Someone asked in another thread about my Waterford Paramount Frame.
It has been bubble wrapped in storage for a long time.

I apologize, I do not recall the thread, so here it is.
I dug it out because the LBS called me to say they found an almost new Dura Ace Group, with wheels for $500.
This is the first group I have heard about, in my price range, to be able to think about completing this frame.

So I dug it out of storage. It happens to be just my size, a 58 cm. I thought it was 61-63.
I will not be bummed about building and riding. My wife will, as I have too many bikes now. It is a balance.

If someone wants it, please say so.
If not, it will be built with the above group and wheels, as well as carbon seat post, threaded to threadless adapter, and carbon bars, and a Cambium saddle.

thank you - BTW I paid $500 for the frame, and drove from Dayton Ohio to Chicago to get it.
Asking price for the frame only is $600 plus actual packing and shipping through Bike Flights.
(If you want the group set and wheels - we can talk - I would sell that for the $500 I paid plus the shipping with the bike.)
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Old 03-31-18, 07:51 AM
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I'm confused. I thought only the Panasonic built frames used the unicrown fork.
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Old 03-31-18, 03:17 PM
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Maybe....

Originally Posted by seedsbelize
I'm confused. I thought only the Panasonic built frames used the unicrown fork.
Someone will chime in, but the Paramount Design Group both had frames done in Japan (PDG Series...) and may have had some done in Waterford. My '87 was similar to that, lugged fork, Waterford (SLX). After that, I lose track until the Series models showed up. Somewhere in there, there were non-Japanese models, I think, sporting the PDG moniker.
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Old 03-31-18, 03:57 PM
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Uh this seems like a screaming deal, is it just me?

Tell me about this DA group.
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Old 03-31-18, 07:53 PM
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Looks like a Waterford Frame with a carbon or aluminum fork, serial number will tell
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Old 03-31-18, 08:21 PM
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From the look of it, I assumed it was a CF fork. @jjames1452 can straighten us out on this, surely.
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Old 03-31-18, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by trainman999
Looks like a Waterford Frame with a carbon or aluminum fork, serial number will tell
How bout an all carbon paramount made by kestrel for even more confusion. 1992 one year only according to the CL ad. Sorry about the thread jack.
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Old 04-01-18, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GrainBrain
Uh this seems like a screaming deal, is it just me?

Tell me about this DA group.
Thanks. I think it is pretty special. I think a DA 10 speed on a light OS hand built frame, with carbon bits (later) will produce a screaming fast bike for a fat 55 year old!!!

I'm ok with no bites and will build.

I just have too many bikes, to the point of obsession, so had to offer to BF before building.
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Old 04-01-18, 08:45 AM
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Were it a 56-57 I would hit the button... A screaming deal for a somewhat unusual frame with top shelf components.
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Old 04-01-18, 11:45 AM
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@jjames1452 Be aware that frame probably takes a 27.4 seatpost
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Old 04-01-18, 06:56 PM
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Agreed. The wheel set alone is worth $400. The DA set alone is worth $400. The frame and fork are awesome.

Wednesday I will give the LBS the go ahead to build.

I will post pics on the C&V site.

Originally Posted by Chrome Molly
Were it a 56-57 I would hit the button... A screaming deal for a somewhat unusual frame with top shelf components.
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Old 04-02-18, 04:08 AM
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Waterford

I dropped the frame and bits to the LBS. They will start to build on Wednesday. I will text them to get the serial number and post it here.
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Old 04-02-18, 03:53 PM
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Ser #

590Dkw D91080
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Old 04-02-18, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jjames1452
590Dkw D91080
PM sent
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Old 04-02-18, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jjames1452
590Dkw D91080
Thanks
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Old 04-03-18, 03:07 AM
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Frame Sold

Frame Sold.
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Old 04-06-18, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jjames1452
Thanks. I think it is pretty special. I think a DA 10 speed on a light OS hand built frame, with carbon bits (later) will produce a screaming fast bike for a fat 55 year old!!!

I'm ok with no bites and will build.

I just have too many bikes, to the point of obsession, so had to offer to BF before building.
You are right. That beauty with an 8sp, 9sp, or 10sp DA group would be ace. If that was a 56cm, I'm not sure I could have resisted.

The lighter components will bring out the frame potential. My choice would be 9sp DA:

Build A:
7700 STI's
7700 calipers
7700 FD, RD
7700 crankset (may need to have scratches polished off, easily done)
Octalink BB as nice as you can find.
7700 hubs (they're out there) laced to silver Aeroheads or A23's.
DA seat post, polished up
Cinelli stem and bars
Polished Elite Ciussi bottle cage or similar (not the thick tubes)
ProLogo saddle (white)
Vittoria Zaffiro Pro in 700x23/25 with the cream sidewall
and yes, white housing and wrap.
A light looking and riding bike.

Build B:
7700 DT shifters
Modolo Aero or Shimano BL400 levers. Black hoods.
7700 calipers, FD, RD (short cage)
7700 crankset if you can find one in good shape OR...FSA carbon compatible with Octalink.
Nicest Octalink BB you can find
Silver chain rings
Bontrager RL or RXL generation wheels with the black rims and hubs, polished stainless spokes
DA seat post, polished up
Black and red Elite Race carbon/plastic/fiberglass bottle cage.
Cinelli stem and bars
ProLogo saddle (white)
Continental GP4000SII's in 23, not 25. Avoiding bulky.
and yes, white housing and wrap.
The hoods, carbon crank arms, and hubs/rims would provide "just enough" black

Build C:
7800 DT shifters. Carefully sanded, primed, and painted flat black (just the lever bodies)
Modolo Aero or Shimano BL400 levers, focusing on the Modolo (black lever bodies, black hoods)
Tektro Quarts R741 calipers in black
105 (5600/5700 in black) FD, RD.
Used FSA SLK crankset, external BB, black rings
Nicest black on black wheelset you can find.
Carbon seat post, with white/red accents (Mao's kids can supply)
Black quill stem (Cinelli, 3TTT, they're out there)
Cinelli or 3TTT bars (your preference)
Black carbon bottle cage w/red accents.
Prologo saddle (black with red trim)
Vredestein Gran Fondo's in 700x25
Black housing and wrap.
The white will be the subdued color, the bike will say "bad-ass upgrade."

Not that the vision of that frame and fork created any kind of hypotheticals.....

If Hodgykins bought it, I'll never be able to keep up at the Dare.
However, he truly deserves a bike like that.
Outstanding guy, and his toiling at the Dare is legendary.
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Old 04-06-18, 02:03 PM
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Oh Robbie...you are way to kind and even a bike like this will not keep me up with the likes of you and Pete!


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
You are right. That beauty with an 8sp, 9sp, or 10sp DA group would be ace. If that was a 56cm, I'm not sure I could have resisted.

The lighter components will bring out the frame potential. My choice would be 9sp DA:

Build A:
7700 STI's
7700 calipers
7700 FD, RD
7700 crankset (may need to have scratches polished off, easily done)
Octalink BB as nice as you can find.
7700 hubs (they're out there) laced to silver Aeroheads or A23's.
DA seat post, polished up
Cinelli stem and bars
Polished Elite Ciussi bottle cage or similar (not the thick tubes)
ProLogo saddle (white)
Vittoria Zaffiro Pro in 700x23/25 with the cream sidewall
and yes, white housing and wrap.
A light looking and riding bike.

Build B:
7700 DT shifters
Modolo Aero or Shimano BL400 levers. Black hoods.
7700 calipers, FD, RD (short cage)
7700 crankset if you can find one in good shape OR...FSA carbon compatible with Octalink.
Nicest Octalink BB you can find
Silver chain rings
Bontrager RL or RXL generation wheels with the black rims and hubs, polished stainless spokes
DA seat post, polished up
Black and red Elite Race carbon/plastic/fiberglass bottle cage.
Cinelli stem and bars
ProLogo saddle (white)
Continental GP4000SII's in 23, not 25. Avoiding bulky.
and yes, white housing and wrap.
The hoods, carbon crank arms, and hubs/rims would provide "just enough" black

Build C:
7800 DT shifters. Carefully sanded, primed, and painted flat black (just the lever bodies)
Modolo Aero or Shimano BL400 levers, focusing on the Modolo (black lever bodies, black hoods)
Tektro Quarts R741 calipers in black
105 (5600/5700 in black) FD, RD.
Used FSA SLK crankset, external BB, black rings
Nicest black on black wheelset you can find.
Carbon seat post, with white/red accents (Mao's kids can supply)
Black quill stem (Cinelli, 3TTT, they're out there)
Cinelli or 3TTT bars (your preference)
Black carbon bottle cage w/red accents.
Prologo saddle (black with red trim)
Vredestein Gran Fondo's in 700x25
Black housing and wrap.
The white will be the subdued color, the bike will say "bad-ass upgrade."

Not that the vision of that frame and fork created any kind of hypotheticals.....

If Hodgykins bought it, I'll never be able to keep up at the Dare.
However, he truly deserves a bike like that.
Outstanding guy, and his toiling at the Dare is legendary.
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Old 04-06-18, 02:28 PM
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I'm still confused about the unicrown fork. Can somebody clear this up for me?
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Old 04-06-18, 10:08 PM
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The Japanese (Panasonic built) PDG series bikes did have Tange Unicrown, Waterford's had a steel lugged (often Columbus), but this fork is carbon. PDG branded bikes built in Waterford were often bike show bikes for the up coming model year. It is highly likely that the carbon fork was OEM for this particular bike.

Originally Posted by seedsbelize
I'm still confused about the unicrown fork. Can somebody clear this up for me?
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Old 04-07-18, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by hodgykins
Oh Robbie...you are way to kind and even a bike like this will not keep me up with the likes of you and Pete!
We may have to get you some red shoes.
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Old 04-07-18, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by hodgykins
The Japanese (Panasonic built) PDG series bikes did have Tange Unicrown, Waterford's had a steel lugged (often Columbus), but this fork is carbon. PDG branded bikes built in Waterford were often bike show bikes for the up coming model year. It is highly likely that the carbon fork was OEM for this particular bike.
Thanks. I learned a lot from this short thread. It's a '91?
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Old 04-07-18, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by seedsbelize
Thanks. I learned a lot from this short thread. It's a '91?
Yes,

590Dkw D91080

59cm

D=fork length (or type)-likely
K=Road Bike or Paramount designation
W=Waterford

D=April
91= year
080=80th paramount made.
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Old 04-19-18, 05:19 PM
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~!

The lettering is not white, more of a silver. Will look very nice with the campy and Stronglight headset.

Could not be more pleased!

Thank you @jjames1452

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Old 04-20-18, 08:03 PM
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Awesome!

I am glad that frame will be appreciated!

Originally Posted by hodgykins
The lettering is not white, more of a silver. Will look very nice with the campy and Stronglight headset.

Could not be more pleased!

Thank you @jjames1452

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