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ISO: "touring" parts..

Old 01-23-21, 10:25 PM
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ISO: "touring" parts..

..even though I won't be touring. But I need to set up my bike with low enough gearing to race 150 miles and 10,000ft climbing.
I'm thinking 32h 700c wheels, 170mm low-geared (triple?) crankset w/ corresponding Italian BB, derailleurs, 13-32? freewheel or similar (7s?) cassette (obviously has to match the wheels), barend shifters, indexed would be awesome.
Also need toe strap type pedals. And a Selle San Marco Regal from the 80s. And possibly a full size frame pump. Piece of cake right?

- crank ✓
- barend indexed (8s?) group
- 32h wheels
- BB (for Sakae triple crank)
- freewheel/cassette (depends on the wheels) ✓
- toe strap pedals ✓
- 26.6 seatpost ~300mm+ ✓
- Vittoria 1976 shoes (size 11)
- Selle San Marco Regal ✓
- frame pump

Last edited by shoota; 02-01-21 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 01-24-21, 05:04 AM
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Tough to beat a 110 bcd crank which you can run as a triple. With 7 on the back and the ride you're talking about (150 miles, 10000 ft climbing), I'd run a triple. I like the old school MTB set up with 46/36/24 rings and an 11-28 7 speed cassette. 11-28 7 speed cassettes are available new even if the supply has been drying up with the pandemic. If you go with a freewheel, 14-28 is the most likely combo new but there are older freewheels out there with 13-28 or even 12-28 but they may be hard to source. Bottom line is first you have to figure out what kind of wheels you are running (freewheel or cassette) as that will likely make a difference as to what kind of rings you want for the crank.

For new 126 OLD wheels, I'd check out what velomine has for sale as well. They have reasonable prices and good products.

For a crank, a 110 bcd crank is your best bet but you'll find more supply at 175 mm than 170 since 175 was a pretty common size on MTBs. The supply of square taper bottom brackets is shrinking but you can still find 68 x 127 BBs. Those seem to work the best with the shimano deore triples I've set up.

For shifters, 7 speed shimano bar ends are a great choice. For derailleurs, just run shimano deore derailleurs.

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Old 01-24-21, 05:08 AM
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Depends what you are looking for, but I have a sakae triple and an ultegra 6503 (octalink) triple & long cage rd
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Old 01-24-21, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Tough to beat a 110 bcd crank which you can run as a triple. With 7 on the back and the ride you're talking about (150 miles, 10000 ft climbing), I'd run a triple. I like the old school MTB set up with 46/36/24 rings and an 11-28 7 speed cassette. 11-28 7 speed cassettes are available new even if the supply has been drying up with the pandemic. If you go with a freewheel, 14-28 is the most likely combo new but there are older freewheels out there with 13-28 or even 12-28 but they may be hard to source. Bottom line is first you have to figure out what kind of wheels you are running (freewheel or cassette) as that will likely make a difference as to what kind of rings you want for the crank.

For new 126 OLD wheels, I'd check out what velomine has for sale as well. They have reasonable prices and good products.

For a crank, a 110 bcd crank is your best bet but you'll find more supply at 175 mm than 170 since 175 was a pretty common size on MTBs. The supply of square taper bottom brackets is shrinking but you can still find 68 x 127 BBs. Those seem to work the best with the shimano deore triples I've set up.

For shifters, 7 speed shimano bar ends are a great choice. For derailleurs, just run shimano deore derailleurs.
Can I get the setup you’re describing in indexed form? That actually works well (not like Campy’s garbage indexing groups of the 80s).
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Old 01-24-21, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by morri869 View Post
Depends what you are looking for, but I have a sakae triple and an ultegra 6503 (octalink) triple & long cage rd
Maybe, what are the specifics on the Sakae cranks?
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Old 01-24-21, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Can I get the setup you’re describing in indexed form? That actually works well (not like Campy’s garbage indexing groups of the 80s).
Yes. Shimano 7 speed indexing works very well. I set up my 1985 Cannondale ST 400 pretty much as you described for long distance riding in hilly terrain. I think the frame is very well designed for long distance riding (long chainstays but with a stiff responsive frame). It's a reasonably light weight bike and has 3 water bottle braze ons. I set it up with 700 x 32c tires and 3 x 7 shimano shifting. The only thing I'd change is eventually I'll install shimano 7 speed bar ends. There's nothing wrong with downtube shifters but bar ends are a plus I think for a long ride.


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Old 01-24-21, 06:59 AM
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It sounds like you're starting with a frame since you are looking for an Italian BB. Are you looking to just change out the drive train and you have the rest of the parts in hand?

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Old 01-24-21, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Yes. Shimano 7 speed indexing works very well... The only thing I'd change is eventually I'll install shimano 7 speed bar ends. There's nothing wrong with downtube shifters but bar ends are a plus I think for a long ride.
Especially if your frame is 60cm or larger...



Now if you want to get eccentric (not in the bottom bracket) one could also explore the half step plus granny route with just a six speed cassette: 50-45-24 up front and 12-14-17-21-26-32 in back. You’ll have to make the cassette yourself out of two other cassettes, but it’s doable. Put a shiny chrome dork disk on and you’ve got your spacer on a 7s hub. Ask me how I know...

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Old 01-24-21, 07:13 AM
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If the frame you are working from is a racing bike with tight clearances, you might want to consider a compact crank. Triples can be a bit of a PITA to set up with short chain stays.
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Old 01-24-21, 07:47 AM
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Sounds like you're looking at that vintage gravel bike race later this year...
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Old 01-24-21, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Maybe, what are the specifics on the Sakae cranks?
Sakae sx cranks, 170mm length, 50/39/28 chainrings.

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Old 01-24-21, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by morri869 View Post
Sakae sx cranks, 170mm length, 50/39/28 chainrings.

I'll PM you!
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Old 01-24-21, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
It sounds like you're starting with a frame since you are looking for an Italian BB. Are you looking to just change out the drive train and you have the rest of the parts in hand?
Yeah more or less. I mean the rest of the parts are the easy part of this. Getting the right groupset with so many moving parts is the hard part. I'll post the frame I'm working with to the original post here shortly.

Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
If the frame you are working from is a racing bike with tight clearances, you might want to consider a compact crank. Triples can be a bit of a PITA to set up with short chain stays.
Yeah mid 70s Windsor. Techncially a race bike but I'm not sure I'd call it "tight". I mean heck I can fit a 36mm tire in the front and a 40mm in the back. The other option is a 1986 Schwinn Voyageur. I'd be starting from the same spot with that one too. Its English BB is a plus, but its canti brakes, vertical dropouts, and geo aren't.

Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Sounds like you're looking at that vintage gravel bike race later this year...
Gravel Worlds here I come!
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Old 01-24-21, 04:47 PM
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You might want to consider a 650b conversion for that Windsor but brake reach may be an issue. The parts mix is easy. I’d just get Deore/shimano 600 quality parts and go 3 by 7 with shimano bar end shifters. One thing I've found is that when setting up a triple with a shimano 110/74 bcd crank, a 127 mm sealed square taper bottom bracket works best.

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Old 01-24-21, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
You might want to consider a 650b conversion for that Windsor but brake reach may be an issue. The parts mix is easy. I’d just get Deore/shimano 600 quality parts and go 3 by 7 with shimano bar end shifters. One thing I've found is that when setting up a triple with a shimano 110/74 bcd crank, a 127 mm sealed square taper bottom bracket works best.
Well, so, I've found out that 7s barend shifters aren't exactly easy to find or cheap. After tinkering with things tonight I'm half decided to go with the Schwinn Voyageur. I'm not sure the 3x7 indexed XT/Deore option you're talking about will be easy to find. And honestly, for the sake of ease a 2x7 drivetrain would be awesome, if I could find a period correct ~50/34 crank. 48/32 would be ideal. Did someone like TA make such a thing?
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Old 01-24-21, 09:06 PM
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morri869 just hooked me up with that triple crank, so that will be a great starting point. I should edit the original post with a better checklist of things I need. 7s indexed barends would be amazing!
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Old 01-25-21, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Well, so, I've found out that 7s barend shifters aren't exactly easy to find or cheap. After tinkering with things tonight I'm half decided to go with the Schwinn Voyageur. I'm not sure the 3x7 indexed XT/Deore option you're talking about will be easy to find. And honestly, for the sake of ease a 2x7 drivetrain would be awesome, if I could find a period correct ~50/34 crank. 48/32 would be ideal. Did someone like TA make such a thing?
You should put up a separate WTB for the 7 speed bar ends. You'll find them. Also you might want to put up a separate WTB for a shimano indexing long cage rear derailleur. The Deore XTs are pretty bombproof and index great.

The triple you just bought is a 110/74. You can go 50/34 with the outer two. You could try running it using the middle and inner only in which case you can run as low as 24 on the inside. I've never set it up that way though.

If you want a vintage double that can go as low as 32 on the inside, you can look for a 50.4 bcd crank (TA is the most famous) (new chainrings are available on eBay) or an 86 bcd crank (Stronglight 99 is the most common but SR and other companies made a copy) (new chainrings are available from UK vendors like Spa cycles). Nervar 631 is a TA copy and you can pick one up for less than a TA. One good thing about Nervar is that you don't need a special chain puller. With an 86 bcd crank, you can go as low as 28 on the inside and with the TA (or TA copy) you can go as low as 26 if memory serves me right.

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Old 01-25-21, 07:25 AM
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I'd have no hesitation subbing in DX, LX, for the XT gear. Heck I've got a 200GS that I've ignored (beat up a bit?) on my winter bike for 4 years and it never misses a shift with thumbies. That early 90's generation of Deore/Exage 7 speeds RD's are super functional. Some are just heavier.
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Old 01-25-21, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
You should put up a separate WTB for the 7 speed bar ends. You'll find them. Also you might want to put up a separate WTB for a shimano indexing long cage rear derailleur. The Deore XTs are pretty bombproof and index great.

The triple you just bought is a 110/74. You can go 50/34 with the outer two. You could try running it using the middle and inner only in which case you can run as low as 24 on the inside. I've never set it up that way though.

If you want a vintage double that can go as low as 32 on the inside, you can look for a 50.4 bcd crank (TA is the most famous) (new chainrings are available on eBay) or an 86 bcd crank (Stronglight 99 is the most common but SR and other companies made a copy) (new chainrings are available from UK vendors like Spa cycles). Nervar 631 is a TA copy and you can pick one up for less than a TA. One good thing about Nervar is that you don't need a special chain puller. With an 86 bcd crank, you can go as low as 28 on the inside and with the TA (or TA copy) you can go as low as 26 if memory serves me right.
These are all great points. I just heard back from the race organizers and they are going to get feedback from all the vintage riders once registration closes. Then we'll have a consensus on what is acceptable for the drivetrain. I suppose I'll just focus on the other parts that I need for now and get the shifty bits later. They alluded that 8s indexed might be acceptable, and if so that would definitely be the way to go.
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Old 01-25-21, 12:15 PM
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Glad to know that I'm not the only one tackling that race in the vintage class!
Brand new carbon gravel bike - nah, I think the 35 year old Miyata with 35 year old brakes and shifters will do just nicely, thank you!
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Old 01-25-21, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sallen73 View Post
Glad to know that I'm not the only one tackling that race in the vintage class!
Brand new carbon gravel bike - nah, I think the 35 year old Miyata with 35 year old brakes and shifters will do just nicely, thank you!
Ha! Same. I convinced the wife to let me borrow her '86 Schwinn Voyageur. That might be the bike I wind up riding.
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Old 01-25-21, 12:42 PM
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Hah, this is out of Lincoln NE. This looks cool. A vintage class in the midwest is interesting. This would be a fun test for a 650b conversion. The bike only has to be pre 1988 . . . .

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Old 01-25-21, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
..even though I won't be touring. But I need to set up my bike with low enough gearing to race 150 miles and 10,000ft climbing.
I'm thinking 32h 700c wheels, 170mm low-geared (triple?) crankset w/ corresponding Italian BB, derailleurs, 13-32? freewheel or similar (7s?) cassette (obviously has to match the wheels), barend shifters, indexed would be awesome.
Also need toe strap type pedals. And a Selle San Marco Regal from the 80s. And possibly a full size frame pump. Piece of cake right?

- crank ✓
- barend indexed (7s?) group
- 32h wheels
- BB (for Sakae triple crank)
- freewheel/cassette (depends on the wheels)
- toe strap pedals
- 26.6 seatpost ~300mm+
- Vittoria 1976 shoes (size 11)
- Selle San Marco Regal
- frame pump
MKS Sylvan, touring or?

Tough as nails, vintage as the day is long and one of the best values in cycling.
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Old 01-25-21, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
MKS Sylvan, touring or?

Tough as nails, vintage as the day is long and one of the best values in cycling.
Yeah you got a pair?
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Old 01-25-21, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Yeah you got a pair?
I don't have any to spare

You can buy brand new ones on efbay, Universal cycles and many others, they have not really changed in decades.
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