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1972? Peugeot PX-10, frame and fork, head set and bb included

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1972? Peugeot PX-10, frame and fork, head set and bb included

Old 11-21-21, 09:05 PM
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marius.suiram 
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1972? Peugeot PX-10, frame and fork, head set and bb included

Selling from Cleveland, OH, 44111
Payment: PayPal (f/f)
Price: 350$ plus shipping.

Nice condition, original paint. Reynolds 531 frame and fork.
There are some small scratches and a touch up where the shifters are attached to the frame, seen in picture 5.
But overall the frame and fork are clean, no rust, no bents, dents or other damages.
Nice decals, except the Reynolds on the right fork blade which has a part missing and the Reynolds on the seat tube has a line crack.
It is a one owner bike, except me, and he did take care and the bike.
64 cm from center of crank to end of seat post.
60 cm top tube (C-C).
Included: Stronglight Competition head set and bottom bracket, not marked.
I wouldn't part the bike, but it has some important parts replaced: the brake set, seat post, front derailleur, shifters and set of wheels.
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Old 11-21-21, 09:07 PM
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Old 11-21-21, 09:09 PM
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Old 11-21-21, 10:45 PM
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Is that the correct fork?
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Old 11-22-21, 12:26 AM
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Correct PX10 Fork?

Originally Posted by kc0yef View Post
Is that the correct fork?
Why do you ask? In other words what do you see that gives you reason to think that it may not be the correct fork? Just curious...

To me it looks like an extremely nice example of a 1972-73 PX-10.

About 1972 Peugeot changed the lugs on the PX-10's from the old style Nervex Professional Model 49/162 that they had been using since at least the early 1960's to Nervex DuBois lugs, the same ones used by Masi and other top name brands. They also changed the down tube decals.




In 1974 Peugeot decreased the fork rake and increased the head tube angles on the mid range size PX-10s - 58cm to 62cm?? They went from 73° to 74° head tubes on those size bikes to follow after the trend setting Italian marques.

Notice the shorter fork rake on this 1974 PX-10 with the old style Nervex Professional lugs.



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Old 11-22-21, 09:48 AM
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Old 11-22-21, 02:49 PM
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Exactly that thanks

Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
Why do you ask?
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Old 11-22-21, 06:34 PM
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If only this were a 56cm. One day I shall find one! So far I have refurbished and passed on four others, 3 too large and one too small…
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Old 11-23-21, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
About 1972 Peugeot changed the lugs on the PX-10's from the old style Nervex Professional Model 49/162 that they had been using since at least the early 1960's to Nervex DuBois lugs, the same ones used by Masi and other top name brands. They also changed the down tube decals.

In 1974 Peugeot decreased the fork rake and increased the head tube angles on the mid range size PX-10s - 58cm to 62cm?? They went from 73° to 74° head tubes on those size bikes to follow after the trend setting Italian marques.

Notice the shorter fork rake on this 1974 PX-10 with the old style Nervex Professional lugs.



verktyg
My observation is that the steeper angles start showing up in '73, based on a black Nervex Pro-lugged specimen I had with some date markings the derailleurs, etc. I had a plain DuBois-lugged PX-10LE which was catalogued for 1974 with WHITE headlugs lined with gold, also per the catalog. Both of these steeper-angled PX-10s had serial numbers that appeared to be crudely hand-stamped into the BB shell parallel to the spindle. For that matter, I think EVERY steep-angled '73-74 PX-10 has that, and I have long wondered about that. It seems to me that the '70-'72 PX-10s has the same aluminum plate serial numbers used on everything else. Does anyone have info from a good source about this?

Be interesting to know how the serial number is marked on the OP's bike, btw.
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Old 11-23-21, 04:44 PM
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BIKE BOOM PX-10 Novella

Originally Posted by rustystrings61 View Post
My observation is that the steeper angles start showing up in '73, based on a black Nervex Pro-lugged specimen I had with some date markings the derailleurs, etc. I had a plain DuBois-lugged PX-10LE which was catalogued for 1974 with WHITE headlugs lined with gold, also per the catalog. Both of these steeper-angled PX-10s had serial numbers that appeared to be crudely hand-stamped into the BB shell parallel to the spindle. For that matter, I think EVERY steep-angled '73-74 PX-10 has that, and I have long wondered about that. It seems to me that the '70-'72 PX-10s has the same aluminum plate serial numbers used on everything else. Does anyone have info from a good source about this?
1972-73 was the height of the BIKE BOOM FAD in the US. At the same time there were smaller booms going on in the UK, France and maybe some other countries... 1973 was also the beginning of the OPEC Oil Embargo, when demands for bicycles went supernova. (In 1974, like most fads, the US Boom came to a screeching halt)

Published specs meant nothing during that time because the European bicycle producers were so strapped for parts and components that they used anything they could get so that they could throw bikes together, box them up and push them out the door as fast as they could.

les spécifications sont sujettes à modification sans préavis (Fr.)
Le specifiche sono soggette a modifiche senza preavviso (It.)


At the same time the bicycle producing countries had heavy protective tariffs for their products. For example, in France, Campagnolo dropouts could add $15 to the export cost of a bike whereas Simplex or Huret dropouts only cost the manufactures a little as a few Francs if that.

Add to that, the French component manufactures were using antiquated machinery with some equipment dating back to possibly WW1. The industry was very inefficient plus much of Western Europe slowed down in August for annual vacations.

Those chronic shortages opened the door to the Japanese makers like Suntour, DiaCompe and later Shimano which had been held out of that market by the tariffs. Gitane was the first of the Big 3 bike makers to start using some Japanese components on their some of their "sporting model" bikes. By 1974, Motobecane followed suit. Peugeot remained primarily "All French" until the 1980's.

Getting back to PX-10s, Nervex made their "Professional" model 49 / 162 lug sets for 72°, 73° and 75° head tube angles. During the brazing process those angles could be fudged a little. "Fancy lugs" like the Nervex Professionals were traditionally used on better quality sporting bikes. In the early days of the bike boom, they started being used on a lot of entry lever French gas pipe bikes.



A number of years back I read on a British C&V website that Nervex discontinued the Professional model 49 / 162 lugs around 1969-1970???

Several well known bikes that had used those lugs changed to a different style in the early 70's. Schwinn Paramounts for example used Prugnat Type 62bis lugs for a year or two before going back to Nervex Professionals.



Peugeot on the other hand changed from Professional lugs to the DuBois style used by Masi and other top makers. They also change crowns.




The move away from Nervex Professional lugs may have been a supply problem or that they looked old and frumpy at a time when long point Italian style lugs were coming into fashion???

This 1974 catalog page shows an all white PX-10 LE with DuBois lugs and fork crown. For a short time around 1974 all of the Peugeot performance models like the PA-10, PR-10 and PX-10 came all white. Same thing back in the mid 1960's. It was a time saver not having to paint the lugs when they were trying to push bikes out the door!



Now back to frame geometry... From the 1960's up through the late 1980's there has been an obsession amongst bike makers to use a 100cm wheelbase on all performance style bikes. It's not as if they all used jigs that couldn't easily be adjusted.

What that 100cm restriction did was alter the head and seat tube angles plus top tube lengths. The smallest frames had shallow head tube angles, as low as 69° and tended to handle like wheelbarrows. At the other extreme, the largest sizes had 75° head tubes with 72° seat tubes in order to accommodate for a longer top tube while still using a 100cm wheelbase.

Combine with that, if there were a shortage of 72° or 73°Nervex Professional lugs then they used whatever they had so that's a possible reason for the variances in head tube angles. Raleigh Internationals used Nervex pro lugs and were an example of this. I've seen Internationals with head tube angles from 72° to 75° degrees. I picked up a 56cm 1974 International frame that has a 75° head tube and the fork rake was 65mm !!! ARGH! Had it re-raked to 55cm.

One other consideration, by 1974 Italian bikes in the mid range sizes 56cm to 60cm (22" to 23 1/2") were starting to come with 74° head tube angles. That used to be considered track bike territory! In 1974 Motobecane adopted 74° for their performance bike too. By 1975 Gios was using parallel 75° angles!!!

So, while a number of folks online have been suggesting that there were intentionally different head tube angles on PX-10s from that era, the points that I mentioned should be considered too.

BTW, there used to be a Classic Rendezvous section devoted to PX-10s. It had some reasonable information on serial numbers. Can't find it anymore???

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Old 11-23-21, 07:23 PM
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Looks like the Simplex derailleur mount has been filed for campagnolo.
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Old 11-23-21, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61 View Post
Be interesting to know how the serial number is marked on the OP's bike, btw.
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Old 11-24-21, 03:40 AM
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Dropout and Serial Number

Originally Posted by santa fe 2926 View Post


Looks like the Simplex derailleur mount has been filed for campagnolo.
Any Simplex direct mount derailleur can still be used because the minor diameter of the 10mm x 1mm tapped hole is 9mm - same as the shoulder diameter on Simplex mounting screws.




Also any derailleur that has a travel stop that the fits over the front of the hanger will work. Older Shimano RDs plus some Campy RDs and others.






Originally Posted by marius.suiram View Post
Serial number on my 1970's PX-10 - 28513 numbers different. The OP's frame has the later Nervex DuBois style fork crown that I wouild think would be a later build. Just goes to show you cant put that much faith in serial numbers from the bike boom era.



My 1970's PX-10. I estimated it to be a late 1972 or very early 1973 bike because of the Nervex DuBois lugs and older Nervex Pro fork crown plus the longer fork rake.



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Old 11-24-21, 08:16 AM
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Here's the SN for a later production 1972 PX10 that has the same lugs, fork crown and rake as the OP's:

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Old 11-24-21, 12:49 PM
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This is a PX10 that I believe is 1974. Its lugs are NOT Nervex. Can someone please confirm with me that it is a 74 model. I’ve also included a photo of the serial number.



1974 PX10?

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Old 11-24-21, 03:46 PM
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1975 px-10

Originally Posted by Arktiger View Post
This is a PX10 that I believe is 1974. Its lugs are NOT Nervex. Can someone please confirm with me that it is a 74 model. I’ve also included a photo of the serial number.


1974 PX10?

It could be a late 1974 model but most likely it's a 1975 PX-10 LE. The lugs ARE Nervex, but DuBois not Professional style...

Please use this link and scroll down to the middle of my post above and check out the DuBois lugs: 1972? Peugeot PX-10, frame and fork, head set and bb included

In 1975 Peugeot changed to the more modern style decals that you have on your bike. They also didn't paint the lugs black.

Your bike is mostly original except for the wheels, front and rear derailleurs, stem and probably bars. The PIVO stem is from before 1974. Peugeot used AVA stems instead of PIVO brand.

I recommend pulling the stem and CAREFULLY inspecting the expander slot at bottom of the quill. Look for any sign of cracking!

If there is ANY sign of cracking, replace it!




If the expander slot area looks OK then use a Dremmel tool with a burr, a drill or whatever to round out the top of the slot. It will reduce the possibility of a crack forming from a stress riser.



Your bike would have come with a Peugeot badged Philippe stem like this.



In any case, I don't recommend more than casual riding with those old cast aluminum stems from PIVO or AVA.

Your serial number supports my statement that you can't rely on them to date these bikes. There are 2 other earlier PX-10s in this thread and your later model bike has a lower serial number.

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Old 11-24-21, 06:35 PM
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Thank you verktyg for the information. I will be sure to check the stem.
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Old 11-24-21, 07:56 PM
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A very educational for-sale thread! Thread drift can be a wonderful thing!
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Old 11-24-21, 08:18 PM
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Port To Main Forum?

Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
A very educational for-sale thread! Thread drift can be a wonderful thing!
Brent
Hi Brent,

Hope all is going well.

Maybe one of the moderators could port the responses over to the main Forum???

Chas. (verktyg)
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Old 11-25-21, 08:34 AM
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The frame and fork were sold, but you can continue the discussions about PX10.
Thank you Verktyg for all the info.
By the way, I have another Px10, from 77 or 78.
I might start another sale thread 😌
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Old 11-28-21, 02:23 AM
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C&V Sales Forum

Originally Posted by marius.suiram View Post
The frame and fork were sold, but you can continue the discussions about PX10.
Thank you Verktyg for all the info.
Sometimes late at night I forget and get carried away with info on a C&V Sales thread rather than the main Forum where many other members can view and contribute... DOH!

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Old 11-28-21, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
Sometimes late at night I forget and get carried away with info on a C&V Sales thread rather than the main Forum where many other members can view and contribute... DOH!

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