Yeah, the costs savings of the CR-18 are hard to overcome. On the other hand, they should be good for lots of miles and they're going on a shimano alfine dynamo front hub and (probably because that's what I have laying around even though the spacing is wrong) Ultegra rear hub, so might pair it with something a bit nicer and just pay the extra $60-80.

That's good to know, thanks.

I've built wheels with both CR18 rims and M13 II rims (have no idea what the II is supposed to mean). They're pretty similar in appearance and price but the M13 II is a bit narrower. I have them on a bike that gets 25 mm to 28 mm tires.

I've never heard anybody complain about the durability of CR-18 rims. The only complaint seems to be that they aren't as round or true as some other rims. Did see a discussion here a while ago about the life expectancy of the rims before the sidewalls wear through. The consensus seems to be "lots of miles."

Probably among the most durable rims would be the Mavic A719. They appear to go for about $80 to $85 in the U.S. For an adventure in trying to figure out how much buying internationally costs, check out ROSE Bikes: Bikeshop Road Bikes, MTB/Mountain Bikes, Trekking and City Bikes The A719 in 36 hole is 55 Euro with 15 Euro shipping, but that includes VAT which U.S. customers don't pay (19%). Currently, the Euro is about $1.08 to $1.10. Shipping for two rims isn't double -- they combine shipping. I've ordered from these folks and they deliver what you pay for and properly discount the VAT. Shipping takes about a week. Their best deals appear to be on western European goods such as Mavic, DT, etc. A Campagnolo Record threaded headset, for example, is 50 Euro plus shipping minus vat. It's a brave new world we live in.

Yeah I wasn't commenting on whether one lasted longer than another or not, just that, while I'm trying to build the wheels on the cheap, saving $30-40 over many thousands of miles spread out isn't so much, so maybe it would be worth pairing nicer rims with my nice (to me anyway- the other wheels I've built up are 105 and chorus) hubs.

I believe there was a prior model M13 from Sun. They show up in searches every so often. I like the M13-II, have them on several bikes. But the original post was for a rim to carry wider tires. The 13 and 18 designations appear to be the inner width.

The Velocity Dyad is also a good contender. I think the CR18 will work great...why not splurge for double butted spokes?

Oh absolutely going with double butted spokes, but the larger ones (sapim race), not the narrow ones (sapim laser) that I tried on my last build that gave me lots of problems.

Hard to go wrong with CR-18s: they're available in a variety of diameters, drillings and finishes, and are study and inexpensive. I run 38mm tires on CR-18 rims with no problems. Unless you have a compelling reason to go with some other rim, I'd just go with the CR-18s.

Fair enough. I've heard that a lot. I've just heard some about variable build quality and issues with mounting certain tires. Unfortunately, one of those Panaracer Paselas was a tire I'd been planning on using. Don't know if that's a rim issue or a tire issue or just some weird combination, but that had been making me a bit leery, but I suppose so many people over so many years can't be all wrong. I've seen some people say you should run a very thin tape with them. Is that really necessary, or can I just go with the standard velox stuff?

If it doesn't take things to far astray, I have a sort of related question.

When I was originally going to build this wheelset up, I was going to use a different frame for the same purpose (commuting, touring, maybe a bit of gravel, all around riding). So I got a geat deal on a lightly used Shimano DH-3N80 front hub with a new light and an unused Ultegra 6700 rear hub in another great deal. So two bargains on hubs with matching finish that I thought I could use together. The thing is, this bike has a 135 mm rear triangle spacing. I asked about using a different wheelset that I already had on hand with the frame over in mechanics and the consensus was to just add a 5 mm spacer to the non-drive side and re-dish and get a new skewer before the conversation devolved into how big a mm is and how much flex aluminum can handle.

Since I'm building up a wheelset for this frame now, does it still make sense to put an extra spacer on the nondrive side and build it up with this hub since it's what I have on hand (and I like to save money), or since it is ultegra which is a racing model with a slightly too short axle (the 130 mm axle will probably only go halfway into each of the dropouts), should I replace it with a more sturdy hub before starting (or take the middle route and just replace the axle and put an extra spacer on there). I really like the idea of using what I have since it's pretty and I already have it, but, if I'd be better off getting a new hub, now is the time before I start ordering spokes and building.

CR18's get my vote too. Wide-ish, not heavy, dirt cheap and build up round and straight. Disclaimer: I've only used 'em in 406mm (20") and 559 (26"), not 700c.

SP
OC, OR

Just add a 5mm spacer to the NDS, and re-center the axle (good time to overhaul the bearings). You may need a longer QR. This will give you better centering of the rim on the hub -> less tension difference ND to NDS. You should recalculate the spoke lengths, but may not make any difference.

OK, so no real reason to buy a new hub? That's good. Sounds like cheapness will rule the day if I can use what I already have and get the inexpensive CR-18 rims. 5 mm spacers are cheap.

I just built up some Ambrosio Excellence rims in silver. Very nice. Easy build. Round, true, even spoke tension....

Plus they look great with the "golden ticket" at the valve hole.

Hmm, I use Paselas a lot and have had no issues with them on CR-18's. I also always use Velox tape. I also have built... Let's see... 8 wheels, I think, with CR-18's and not had any build issues. Not a huge sample size, but that's my experience.

I recommend Mavic Ma2.

I've not had any problems with CR-18 build quality, and no problems using Velox rim tape either, but I suppose YMMV.