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Bicycle misnomenclature

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Old 01-12-18, 12:39 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by Fett2oo5 View Post
I mean no disrespect, but I'm 34 and have never heard the term watch cap. As far as I've known (again, only 34 years) they've always been called beanies.
Try a google image search for "watch cap" and see what comes up.
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Old 01-12-18, 12:46 PM
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Bicycle malingo: "cluster" to mean the group of cogs driven by the chain. The term makes sense, but we in the know were sure to always call it a freewheel. Or now more likely a cassette.

Cassette (historically, a small case or box) is not so different from the meaning of cluster - a group of the same or similar elements gathered or occurring closely together.

Freewheel describes the action of the underlying mechanism - without saying anything about the observable group of cogs. No wonder many customers and some mechanics called it a cluster!

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Old 01-12-18, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by palincss View Post
But during the bike boom the big export market for Japan was the United States, which used English measurements. And honestly, aren't you glad they went that way? We're far better off today than we would have been had they gone with French standards, in my opinion.
I don't know. Why are English measurements better? I like metric. The only problem with the French standard is that it wasn't adopted long-term, so it varies from the rest of the world. They learned soon enough it was too late to change pitch on chains and diameters of bearing balls.
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Old 01-12-18, 03:18 PM
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I run into the use of "ferrule" for the cable housing end caps, but not for the ends of the cables themselves- which is often called an "end cap" or "end crimp" . but its obviously a ferrule by most common definitions, while the other is ..still a possible ferrule but also could be a cap.

usually a ferrule is crimped on and not easily replaceable without cutting etc, where a cap can be taken on and off. its backwards really from the common sense of it.
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Old 01-12-18, 07:18 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by altenwrencher View Post
Cassette (historically, a small case or box) is not so different from the meaning of cluster - a group of the same or similar elements gathered or occurring closely together.
...and usually easily removable as a unit, as in the case of a cassette motorcycle transmission with removable gearsets; good old fashioned cassette tapes; cassette clusters.
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Old 01-12-18, 07:47 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by altenwrencher View Post
Bicycle malingo: "cluster" to mean the group of cogs driven by the chain. The term makes sense, but we in the know were sure to always call it a freewheel. Or now more likely a cassette.

Cassette (historically, a small case or box) is not so different from the meaning of cluster - a group of the same or similar elements gathered or occurring closely together.

Freewheel describes the action of the underlying mechanism - without saying anything about the observable group of cogs. No wonder many customers and some mechanics called it a cluster!
I use "cluster" all the time when I don't know offhand whether the bike I'm talking about has a cassette or freewheel...so I'm one of those mechanics you refer to!
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Old 01-12-18, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti View Post
Stopped for gas & a refreshmet in a filling station in Texas and asked if they had pop for sale. The reply was, Pop? WTF is pop? Some kind of drug?
My wife was in a drug store in Florida and asked the young checkout lady if she could put her purchases in a sack. The young girl had no idea what a sack was. After telling her it was a bag, the girl was astonished and said she had never heard of a grocery or paper or plastic sack. Btw, we're from Illinois and use both sack and bag interchangeably.
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Old 01-12-18, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by altenwrencher View Post
Bicycle malingo: "cluster" to mean the group of cogs driven by the chain.
Cogs?? We often use cog to mean an individual sprocket but it really means one tooth on the sprocket. I was once berated by a fellow C&V'er who is a mechanical engineer for that misuse. But I still fall into that trap every so often.
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Old 01-13-18, 07:27 AM
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You know that swingarm on your full suspension bike? It's actually a swinging fork. For an example of a swingarm (mysteriously and redundantly called a "single-sided swingarm") look no further than the Honda VFR800 motorcycles.
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Old 01-13-18, 07:36 AM
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Along those same lines, what is the pivoting device on the front of this bicycle? It sure ain't a fork.
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Old 01-13-18, 08:03 AM
  #186  
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I had seen photos of those bikes from the side before, but never one from the front. It just looks weird, in a "how does that thing even work?" kind of way. I'm sure they ride fine, but in my mind, it looks like it is unbalanced and the steering would always be pulling to one side.

Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Along those same lines, what is the pivoting device on the front of this bicycle? It sure ain't a fork.
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Old 01-13-18, 08:09 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by Pompiere View Post
I'm sure they ride fine, but in my mind, it looks like it is unbalanced and the steering would always be pulling to one side.
As long as the wheel is in line with the steering axis it shouldn't pull to one side. It would certainly make the front end lighter than having two struts. But that arrangement does put a bending stress on the single strut. I would think that adds friction to the suspension, and also makes it wear out faster.

But yeah, it does look weird. Or wierd, or wired or something. Just not right.
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Old 01-13-18, 08:35 AM
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I talked with the owners at our LBS about the Lefty Cannondale forks, last week. We were chatting about the Slate grave bike, I just feel like its strange looking is all. One of the owners said he has the same MTB model pictured above, and they perform great. Lots of them out there on MTBs and some others, but not for me. BMW motorcycles like the single sided rear suspension for their shaft drive units, biggest plus for those type of rear arms is faster racing tire changes, I would think.

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Old 01-13-18, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
BMW motorcycles like the single sided rear suspension for their shaft drive units, biggest plus for those type of rear arms is faster racing tire changes, I would think.
Watching them change tires on MotoGP bikes gives you some perspective on that.
Ducati runs single sided swingarms, so does Aprilia. Watching their pit stops vs Honda and Yamaha's makes me think that maybe the two sided swingarm has, at this time, a superior design in regards to mounting and unmounting in a speedy fashion.
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Old 01-13-18, 09:12 AM
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I ride my road bike, mountain bike, and gravel bike on roads, mountains, and gravel respectively.

I've yet to ride my Fat Bike on fat.

Plus, the bike's not really fat, but rather the round rubbers.
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Old 01-13-18, 12:57 PM
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[QUOTE=altenwrencher;20107937]Along those same lines, what is the pivoting device on the front of this bicycle? It sure ain't a fork.

It's a spork.
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Old 01-14-18, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
As long as the wheel is in line with the steering axis it shouldn't pull to one side. It would certainly make the front end lighter than having two struts. But that arrangement does put a bending stress on the single strut. I would think that adds friction to the suspension, and also makes it wear out faster...
For the same strength, buckling resistance, and price point, I doubt it would be lighter.
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Old 01-14-18, 05:26 PM
  #193  
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Cogset, freewheel, cluster; it's all good to me.

To expect the kind of precision from language that allows no ambiguity will always lead to disappointment. Every language that I know of (with, perhaps, the exception of the computer languages about which I know nothing) has multiple words that mean very similar things, has words that mean multiple things, and has words that mean one thing to some speakers and something else to others. Additionally languages that are in current usage are a moving target: They are constantly changing.

So much depends on context... and this is a good thing if you have any poetic inclination.

Myself, I like the fact that I can drop into my small sprocket to sprint for a city limit sign but I can also drop into my low gear for a long climb. I can drop another rider and I can drop behind the group.

The Mountain bike club to which I have belonged for over 25 years is called the Forest Knolls Freewheelers yet none of us have freewheels on our bikes anymore. That makes the name more, not less, interesting in my mind.
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Old 01-14-18, 08:58 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by n0+4c|u3 View Post
Watching them change tires on MotoGP bikes gives you some perspective on that.
Ducati runs single sided swingarms, so does Aprilia. Watching their pit stops vs Honda and Yamaha's makes me think that maybe the two sided swingarm has, at this time, a superior design in regards to mounting and unmounting in a speedy fashion.
The famed Vespa (at least up to the P Series) had single sided front an rear wheel suspension. The combo engine casing/ gear box was in fact the rear swing arm with a single shock on the left side as was the front fork. The rims were off set to one side and were interchangeable between the front and rear. This made it easy to replace a flat tire with an onboard spare. Actually, the Vespa was some very clever engineering and design.
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Old 01-14-18, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Fidbloke View Post
I thought that 'Yooze' was a Scottish thing, but I've heard people saying it in films that have a New York context as well.
"I dinna ken yooze"
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Old 01-14-18, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
The Mountain bike club to which I have belonged for over 25 years is called the Forest Knolls Freewheelers yet none of us have freewheels on our bikes anymore. That makes the name more, not less, interesting in my mind.
Brent
Interesting, I was wondering what freewheeling had to do with freewheels when I read that
As the common definition for "freewheeling" is "characterized by a disregard for rules or conventions; unconstrained or uninhibited."
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Old 01-14-18, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by n0+4c|u3 View Post
Interesting, I was wondering what freewheeling had to do with freewheels when I read that
As the common definition for "freewheeling" is "characterized by a disregard for rules or conventions; unconstrained or uninhibited."
Aren't plays on words fun? Part of the reason why I cherish ambiguity in language.
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Old 01-14-18, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Maybe you guys can clear this up for me, with your historical perspective.

We have saddle and "seat post". Why isn't it "saddle post" and "saddle tube"? Same goes for "seat stay".

The pipe holding the saddle is "post", but the one on the fork is steerer "tube". Doesn't "steerer post" make more sense? For what reason "head tube"? Seems like steerer tube or "fork tube" since it's the tube that the fork post goes into.

Derailleur, or even Sheldon Brown's "de-railler" makes no sense. There is no rail, but there are cogs.
So why not just call those things we sit on seats? (Many of do. And get corrected for it here.)

I have no problem with derailleurs. They push the chain off the cog it is on and over to the next one, or they "derail" the chain, very similar to derailling a train.

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Old 01-14-18, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altenwrencher
Bicycle malingo: "cluster" to mean the group of cogs driven by the chain. The term makes sense, but we in the know were sure to always call it a freewheel. Or now more likely a cassette.

Cassette (historically, a small case or box) is not so different from the meaning of cluster - a group of the same or similar elements gathered or occurring closely together.

Freewheel describes the action of the underlying mechanism - without saying anything about the observable group of cogs. No wonder many customers and some mechanics called it a cluster!





Originally Posted by agmetal View Post
I use "cluster" all the time when I don't know offhand whether the bike I'm talking about has a cassette or freewheel...so I'm one of those mechanics you refer to!
I hang my track cogs for my fix gear on bailing wire which I twist together at the top to travel. 12t sprocket thru 23t sprocket less whatever is on the bike. I call (I believe quite properly) that collection of sprockets a "cluster". Probably the only 12-speed fix gear cluster out there.

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Old 01-14-18, 11:35 PM
  #200  
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
But that arrangement does put a bending stress on the single strut. I would think that adds friction to the suspension, and also makes it wear out faster.
The thing about suspension forks is that even two-sided ones are generally internally asymmetric. i.e. the damper is on just one side.

Lefty forks actually have very low static friction: rather than use the upper and lower part of the leg as a circular bushing, they internally use a square-shaped connection on roller bearings. The square shape of the bearing connection is also why the fork doesn't twist, despite having only one leg.
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