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Bicycle misnomenclature

Old 06-01-18, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider
This is not misnomenclature, but when did a derailleur start to be called a mech? Recently to my ears, but maybe it started long ago in Britain or somewhere.
I assume mech (mechanism) is just easier to say for some people than the very French “dee-rail-uhr “.
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Old 06-03-18, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by markk900

I assume mech (mechanism) is just easier to say for some people than the very French “dee-rail-uhr “.
Sure, but when did that usage start?
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Old 06-03-18, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider
This is not misnomenclature, but when did a derailleur start to be called a mech? Recently to my ears, but maybe it started long ago in Britain or somewhere.
I think that briticisms are irresistible to many Americans. That must be it--otherwise why would people around here (those with no perceptible link to the UK, I mean, who are not even referring to a British bicycle) refer to its parts as "bits?" I wonder about that a lot.

Probably I should be doing something more useful to society instead.
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Old 06-04-18, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller
Be aware that y'all is plural, and is you-all. And the plural of y'all is all y'all.
Nope. The plural of y'all is "all y'all"....
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Old 06-04-18, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocket-Sauce
Nope. The plural of y'all is "all y'all"....
When I was in Ireland some years ago people used the word "yiz," which appeared to me to be a collective "you" that's analogous to the American "y'all." Is that in fact the case? Maybe someone in Ireland can let me know.
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Old 06-04-18, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jonwvara
When I was in Ireland some years ago people used the word "yiz," which appeared to me to be a collective "you" that's analogous to the American "y'all." Is that in fact the case? Maybe someone in Ireland can let me know.
We use that in NY, NJ, and PA, too.
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Old 06-04-18, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider
This is not misnomenclature, but when did a derailleur start to be called a mech? Recently to my ears, but maybe it started long ago in Britain or somewhere.
Being raised in Canada, I was caught between two worlds. The USA cycling magazines referred to "derailleurs" but the immigrant UK cyclists called them "mechs". Regarding "mechs" origin, when Britain rediscovered derailleurs in the 1930s, they were typically marketed as a set that included the control lever, multiple cog freewheel, derailleur and cables. These sets were interchangeably called "derailleurs", "derailleur gears" or just "gears". UK literature of the day did not have a specific name for the device that we now call a derailleur and often referred to it as a "mechanism for moving the chain". This may be the origins of the abbreviated term "mech". Historically, "mech" would appear to have precedence (in the English language), as using "derailleur" to describe a particular component is a corruption of the original English language terminology that described a set or system of components. Attached is an excerpt from a mid-1930s British Cyclo catalogue.

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Old 06-04-18, 10:21 AM
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Thanks, @T-Mar. I didn't know the usage is so old. It's more mixed up now, now that there is more international communication.
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Old 06-04-18, 10:33 AM
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The cycling misnomer that is my personal peeve, is the use of "clincher" to describe a "wired-on" tyre. Clincher refers to a tyre style developed in the 1890s. Clinchers had very thick rubber beads/edges that fit into a pronounced hook in the rim. The bead was solid rubber or hollow but there was no encased metal hoop like used in a "wired-on" tyre. A bicycle tyre monopoly driven by corporate greed virtually killed off both styles in the USA during the early 20th century. When the USA eventually rediscovered the "wired-on" tyre, they erroneously called it a "clincher".


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Old 06-04-18, 11:22 AM
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I'm sure this has been mentioned, but saying "tire" when the entire wheel is meant. Sometimes people tell me about getting a tire stolen and I always scoff at the effort needed to remove it and ask if they took the tube, too
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Old 06-04-18, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider
This is not misnomenclature, but when did a derailleur start to be called a mech? Recently to my ears, but maybe it started long ago in Britain or somewhere.
I always thought it was a Mountain Bike thing?
They're re-named various tyre sizes so that they sound more 'offroad-ish', so just I'd always assumed that any other odd terminology came from that end of the cycling world?

Oh well, you live and learn...
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Old 06-04-18, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
The cycling misnomer that is my personal peeve, is the use of "clincher" to describe a "wired-on" tyre. Clincher refers to a tyre style developed in the 1890s. Clinchers had very thick rubber beads/edges that fit into a pronounced hook in the rim. The bead was solid rubber or hollow but there was no encased metal hoop like used in a "wired-on" tyre. A bicycle tyre monopoly driven by corporate greed virtually killed off both styles in the USA during the early 20th century. When the USA eventually rediscovered the "wired-on" tyre, they erroneously called it a "clincher".

But isn't that similar to the arrangement that we have now?
We went for years with no real mechanical attachment of the tyre to the rim. But most modern rims now have extra 'ribs', that the tyres clip into as they inflate.
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Old 06-04-18, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fidbloke
But isn't that similar to the arrangement that we have now?
We went for years with no real mechanical attachment of the tyre to the rim. But most modern rims now have extra 'ribs', that the tyres clip into as they inflate.
The old genuine clinchers were sew ups -- I think. They were inherently different than a modern clincher. (er, wired on tire - sorry T-mar )

To me, it appears that the new tubular/clincher tires are very nearly the same thing as the original clinchers. Basically it's a sew up that doesn't require glue.
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Old 06-04-18, 03:47 PM
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Paging @T-Mar... As long as we're on this, what is the difference between single and double tube tires? I see this in antique tire ads, and I have no idea what they are talking about. I kind figure you would know... TIA.
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Old 06-04-18, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
Paging @T-Mar... As long as we're on this, what is the difference between single and double tube tires? I see this in antique tire ads, and I have no idea what they are talking about. I kind figure you would know... TIA.
Single and double tube tyres were similar in that that they both had a casing that completely enclosed the inner tube and the casing was cemented to rim. This, the construction looked like a hoop from a "tube". However, in the "single tube" tyre, the inner tube was vulcanized to the outer casing, making the tube and casing one unit or a "single tube". The casing could not be opened to withdraw and patch the inner tube. They were typically patched using plugs, injected cement or returned to the LBS for vulcanization. "Double tube" tyres were what we currently call sew-ups or tubulars. The inner tube is not bonded to the casing, which is sewn together, to completely envelop the tube. Since the inner tube and outer tube (i.e. casing) are independent from each other, they were called "double tube".
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Old 06-04-18, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
The old genuine clinchers were sew ups -- I think. They were inherently different than a modern clincher. (er, wired on tire - sorry T-mar )

To me, it appears that the new tubular/clincher tires are very nearly the same thing as the original clinchers. Basically it's a sew up that doesn't require glue.
True clinchers were not sew-ups.The casing was not stitched together. Sometimes they had flaps that extended under the tube and overlapped, to alleviate the need for rim strips but they were often an open "U" section, similar to a wired-on. They were held in place solely by air pressure pressing the enlarged beads into the pronounced rim hooks. Since there was no sewing or cement involved, they were very easy to repair.
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Old 06-04-18, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Fidbloke
But isn't that similar to the arrangement that we have now?
We went for years with no real mechanical attachment of the tyre to the rim. But most modern rims now have extra 'ribs', that the tyres clip into as they inflate.
They're similar in that they both use air pressure and beads to hold the tyre onto the rim. However, in the wired-on the tyre bead is small, with an internal bead core/hoop of metal or Kevlar that maintains the tyre shape and performs the seating. The true clincher does not have a bead core and consequentially is much more flexible, requiring a very large bead and rim hook for seating. The modern wired-on rim essentially used a very scaled down version of the true clincher rim hook, to prevent blow-off of high pressure tyres, particularly those with Kevlar bead cores. Wired-on rims and tyres were erroneously being called clinchers long before the development of the high pressure wired-on rim and tyre. True clinchers and wired-ons are incompatible.

Attached are cross sections of three rims to show the difference in hook size. The wired-on rim, Model 16A (1) has no hook. The high pressure wired-on, Model 16A(3), has small hooks, actually more of a lip or bead. The true clincher, Model 3A, has a very large hooks. Note that the drawings are appropriate the same scale and the dimension between the inside edge of the flanges are comparable but that the outside width dimension of the true clincher is proportionally much larger, with half of that being the hooks.




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Old 06-04-18, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
Along those same lines, what is the pivoting device on the front of this bicycle? It sure ain't a fork.
It can be considered a fork, depending on your perspective. A bicycle fork does not have the same implications of multiple appendages, such as the eating utensil or a fork in the road. In bicycle terminology, a fork is the portion of a frameset that attaches a wheel to the main tubes. A bicycle has two forks, one for the front wheel and another for the rear. While the front fork typically has two blades, a single bladed fork is not an oxymoron, at least not in the bicycle (or motorcycle) industry. Generically, you could call it a mono-fork or uni-fork, to distinguish it from the traditional style.
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Old 06-04-18, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
True clinchers were not sew-ups.The casing was not stitched together. Sometimes they had flaps that extended under the tube and overlapped, to alleviate the need for rim strips but they were often an open "U" section, similar to a wired-on. They were held in place solely by air pressure pressing the enlarged beads into the pronounced rim hooks. Since there was no sewing or cement involved, they were very easy to repair.
So, kind of like these, right?

https://www.tufo.com/en/tubular-clincher/
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Old 06-04-18, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Single and double tube tyres were similar in that that they both had a casing that completely enclosed the inner tube and the casing was cemented to rim. This, the construction looked like a hoop from a "tube". However, in the "single tube" tyre, the inner tube was vulcanized to the outer casing, making the tube and casing one unit or a "single tube". The casing could not be opened to withdraw and patch the inner tube. They were typically patched using plugs, injected cement or returned to the LBS for vulcanization. "Double tube" tyres were what we currently call sew-ups or tubulars. The inner tube is not bonded to the casing, which is sewn together, to completely envelop the tube. Since the inner tube and outer tube (i.e. casing) are independent from each other, they were called "double tube".
Thanks T-Mar. That makes perfect sense, now that you've explained it... Couldn't quite understand how they got two tubes into one tire. Clearly that was the wrong line of thought.

So then the single tube tires were much like the 80s Wolber Liberty tubular tires, or for that matter the modern Tufo. The Liberty tires were not sewn. The tube was vulcanized into the casing, and you were supposed to patch it with a special cement injector kit. I never got the 'patch' to hold more than the ride back home. It's made me skeptical of modern variations.

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Old 06-04-18, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
True clinchers were not sew-ups.The casing was not stitched together. Sometimes they had flaps that extended under the tube and overlapped, to alleviate the need for rim strips but they were often an open "U" section, similar to a wired-on. They were held in place solely by air pressure pressing the enlarged beads into the pronounced rim hooks. Since there was no sewing or cement involved, they were very easy to repair.
Yes, understood. I meant sew up only in the sense that it was an all in one tire with an enclosed tube. Bad and nonsensical choice of word on my part. Tubular would have been better. I could see from the pictures that the casing was laminated over itself rather than sewn.
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Old 06-04-18, 09:39 PM
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I remember the first time I saw a three-tined fork (at the dinner table), and I said, that's not a fork, it's a threek. So a two-tined fork is a twok (pronounced tuke). And a one-tined fork is a onek (pronounced wunk).
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Old 06-04-18, 10:52 PM
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^^^
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A three-L lllama is a really big fire
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Old 06-05-18, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
It can be considered a fork, depending on your perspective. A bicycle fork does not have the same implications of multiple appendages, such as the eating utensil or a fork in the road. In bicycle terminology, a fork is the portion of a frameset that attaches a wheel to the main tubes. A bicycle has two forks, one for the front wheel and another for the rear. While the front fork typically has two blades, a single bladed fork is not an oxymoron, at least not in the bicycle (or motorcycle) industry. Generically, you could call it a mono-fork or uni-fork, to distinguish it from the traditional style.
Jeez, man, lighten up. We all know that if it walks like a fork and quacks like a fork...never mind.
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Old 06-05-18, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills
^^^
A one-L lama is a Tibetan priest
A two-L llama is an Andean camel
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