Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Rear wheel keeps walking forward in dropout

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Rear wheel keeps walking forward in dropout

Old 05-18-15, 07:27 AM
  #1  
chapel
What's this lever do?
Thread Starter
 
chapel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 497

Bikes: 1987 Centurion Sport DLX | 1996 GT Vertigo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rear wheel keeps walking forward in dropout

So, I have a 130mm rear hub jammed into a 126 frame.
Once, a while back the rear wheel walked out and went for a ride without me while I tumbled into traffic.
I changed out the wheels to a better DuraAce rear hub and QRs. I also decided to mark the dropouts with a marker to see if it would creep up... and it does

What can I do to keep this from happening? Do I need to have my dropouts aligned properly for the 130? Is there anything else I can do?
chapel is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 07:43 AM
  #2  
Tim_Iowa
Senior Member
 
Tim_Iowa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 1,651

Bikes: 1997 Rivendell Road Standard 650b conversion (tourer), 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10 (gravel/tour), 2013 Foundry Auger disc (CX/gravel), 2016 Cannondale Fat CAAD 2 (MTB/winter), 2011 Cannondale Flash 29er Lefty (trail MTB)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
This is common with forward-facing horizontal dropouts. The force on the chain pulls that side of the wheel forward, jamming the wheel against the left chainstay.

You need to either:
1) Clamp the axle tighter. Ensure your DA skewers are internal cam, not external cam. And clamp them will all the tightness you can muster.
2) Use a retention device. I use Surly's Hurdy Gurdy on my Rivendell with this problem. No more problem!

Alignment wouldn't hurt (and may improve shifting).
Tim_Iowa is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 07:52 AM
  #3  
chapel
What's this lever do?
Thread Starter
 
chapel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 497

Bikes: 1987 Centurion Sport DLX | 1996 GT Vertigo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
yeah, they're internal cam.
Guess I need to just stop being such a wimp and really crank them on.
chapel is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 07:54 AM
  #4  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,341
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 936 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Alignment should be done.
Locate an internal cam quick release with all steel construction if you are not using one yet.
Campagnolo was the standard. They are around to fit the wide rear spacing, but not common.
Does the 130 mm hub have any gripping texture? With a horizontal dropout you need it.
Is that surface steel? It should be for your use.
How easy are you setting the closure tension?
repechage is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 08:11 AM
  #5  
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 16,214

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Hopefully I'm not insulting the OP's intelligence here, but not everyone understands the process for using the Quick release mechanism when putting wheels on.

Step 1 - Open the release
Step 2 - position the wheel
Step 3 - turn the QR mechanism until it encounters some resistance
Step 4 - Close the release lever

If the release lever won't close, or requires gorilla strength to close, open the release and back it off in 1/4 turn increments until it takes merely a firm effort to get it to close.
If the release closes rather effortlessly, it isn't tight enough, open the release and tighten in 1/2 turn increments until you feel that degree of effort to close it.

If you either can't get the q/r to require that degree of firmness, or if the wheel still slips, there's something wrong with the qr mechanism, and it needs to be replaced.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 08:15 AM
  #6  
slebo3213
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Had this happen on my Merckx for a while - DA hubs and QR skewers. At the recommendation of a local mechanic, I removed the springs from the skewers, tightened, and never had the problem since
slebo3213 is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 08:15 AM
  #7  
PBC peugeot
Senior Member
 
PBC peugeot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: roads & trails
Posts: 112

Bikes: 1972 Raleigh international, 1975 Raleigh professional, 1978 ALAN criterium, 1981 Pinnarello Traviso

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
with the wheel in the frame and the skewer removed,
how close to the outer face of the dropout is the end of the axle?
also make sure the skewer springs did not get turned around backwards
PBC peugeot is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 08:16 AM
  #8  
bertinjim 
Senior Member
 
bertinjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 966

Bikes: 1960s Bertin C37, 1970s Bertin C 37

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
chapel-

A easy measure of the QR tightness described by USAZorro is to press the QR closed with the palm of your hand. It should leave a clear impression in the flesh when you have fully closed the QR and removed your hand.
bertinjim is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 08:27 AM
  #9  
PBC peugeot
Senior Member
 
PBC peugeot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: roads & trails
Posts: 112

Bikes: 1972 Raleigh international, 1975 Raleigh professional, 1978 ALAN criterium, 1981 Pinnarello Traviso

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
another thing to check is the skewer itself
i have seen ones that have the camming surface worn down
it feels like you are tightening it down, but your not
try another skewer, or take that one apart to clean and inspect it
you also want to make sure the dropouts are not bent or twisted slightly from the crash
they must be perfectly parallel to each other and flat, or you may not get good wheel retainment
PBC peugeot is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 08:44 AM
  #10  
ThermionicScott 
hungry
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 18,506

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2025 Post(s)
Liked 95 Times in 79 Posts
A couple thoughts:

1) If you're using the force required to close the QR as your reference, lubricate the cam really good and try again. You may have been fighting a dry/rusty QR and not clamping the wheel as hard as you thought.
2) If you still need to use more leverage from the QR to hold the wheel in place, you may need to readjust the rear wheel bearing so that it doesn't end up too tight. The rule of thumb I like and use is that the QR should have no resistance when all the way open, but just start to resist lightly when the lever is straight out.
3) Does the dropout face have impressions from previous wheel installations? If you're trying to install the wheel just behind one, it will want to slip and settle into it.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is online now  
Old 05-18-15, 09:42 AM
  #11  
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,062

Bikes: 73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 87 Centurion Ironman Expert, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PFN10

Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1046 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
First, check the DO alignment. Second, check the alignment of the DOs. Third, make sure your DOs are aligned. Depending on how good or bad it was originally, those extra 4mm could have made it worse enough to matter.

Fourth check that your axle is positioned okay in the hub so that it doesn't stick out too far to one side. If it was originally set up for a bike with a claw for the RD and you are putting it on a bike with forged DO and an integrated hanger, it may be too long on the DS.

Fifth, make sure your skewer isn't badly bent.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 09:46 AM
  #12  
jyl
Senior Member
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,516

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Check axle length, make sure the axle doesn't not protrude past the outside face of the dropout.

Check there is no grease on dropout face.

If inside surface of QR is smooth, use a file or Dremel to score some grooves in it.

If you have anything between QR and dropout (certain fender and rack mounts), remove it, or use a file or Dremel to score grooves in it.

Adjust QR so it is tight when you close it. "Impression on palm" test works.
jyl is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 09:51 AM
  #13  
chapel
What's this lever do?
Thread Starter
 
chapel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 497

Bikes: 1987 Centurion Sport DLX | 1996 GT Vertigo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
thanks guys. I'll take this all into consideration when I get home tonight with the bike.
chapel is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 10:00 AM
  #14  
chapel
What's this lever do?
Thread Starter
 
chapel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 497

Bikes: 1987 Centurion Sport DLX | 1996 GT Vertigo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Tim_Iowa View Post
This is common with forward-facing horizontal dropouts. The force on the chain pulls that side of the wheel forward, jamming the wheel against the left chainstay.

You need to either:
1) Clamp the axle tighter. Ensure your DA skewers are internal cam, not external cam. And clamp them will all the tightness you can muster.
2) Use a retention device. I use Surly's Hurdy Gurdy on my Rivendell with this problem. No more problem!

Alignment wouldn't hurt (and may improve shifting).
oh nice. just ordered a Hurdy Gurdy for $27 shipped
Surly Hurdy Gurdy -Silver - Modern Bike

I use these on my BMX bike, so this is great. Cheaper than having the DOs aligned. There's only one guy near me who can do it. This will be a good stopgap.
chapel is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 10:20 AM
  #15  
MikesChevelle
Senior Member
 
MikesChevelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boise
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Why not cold set the rear and have the DO aligned?
MikesChevelle is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 10:28 AM
  #16  
chapel
What's this lever do?
Thread Starter
 
chapel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 497

Bikes: 1987 Centurion Sport DLX | 1996 GT Vertigo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MikesChevelle View Post
Why not cold set the rear and have the DO aligned?
too lazy to bring it to my vintage shop to have it done. It's on my checklist...
But also, finding another frame is also on my checklist... so they sort of butt heads.
chapel is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 10:33 AM
  #17  
MikesChevelle
Senior Member
 
MikesChevelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boise
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I had this issue a tad on my Centurion with a recent wheelset acquisition. I ended up ever so slightly angling in the read DO so it was more parallel once I shoved the 130mm wheels in
MikesChevelle is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 05:07 PM
  #18  
RobbieTunes 
Half drunk? Finish!
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Very Southern Indiana
Posts: 25,745
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 346 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 48 Posts
I truly have no idea, but everyone else seems to know what's up.
__________________
Robbie ♪♫♪...☻
I have unfinished business.

RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 05-18-15, 05:41 PM
  #19  
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,923
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 323 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
1. Axles length. Axles should extend about 1/2 into the dropout
2. Skewers need lubing.

Thats it.
miamijim is offline  
Old 05-21-15, 04:49 AM
  #20  
chapel
What's this lever do?
Thread Starter
 
chapel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 497

Bikes: 1987 Centurion Sport DLX | 1996 GT Vertigo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

problem solved

I would argue this is a must for heavier riders. I was finally able to stand and ascend my hill today without worry of my wheel wandering off and crashing again.

I use a similar device on my BMX bike, so this is fantastic.

I did have to remove the spring on the derailleur side though. Otherwise it wasn't sitting flush against the washer.

Last edited by chapel; 05-21-15 at 06:13 AM.
chapel is offline  
Old 05-21-15, 07:34 AM
  #21  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,421
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by slebo3213 View Post
Had this happen on my Merckx for a while - DA hubs and QR skewers. At the recommendation of a local mechanic, I removed the springs from the skewers, tightened, and never had the problem since
That shouldn't make any difference.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 05-21-15, 08:27 AM
  #22  
ThermionicScott 
hungry
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 18,506

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2025 Post(s)
Liked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Originally Posted by slebo3213 View Post
Had this happen on my Merckx for a while - DA hubs and QR skewers. At the recommendation of a local mechanic, I removed the springs from the skewers, tightened, and never had the problem since
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
That shouldn't make any difference.
Agreed. The axle was most likely a little too long, and the springs exacerbated the problem.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is online now  
Old 05-21-15, 08:57 AM
  #23  
slebo3213
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
That shouldn't make any difference.
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Agreed. The axle was most likely a little too long, and the springs exacerbated the problem.
All I know is springs = problem, no springs = no problem. It's been almost a year plus hundreds of miles, and the rear wheel hasn't walked since. Hypothesize all you want while I ride away into the sunset :-)
slebo3213 is offline  
Old 05-21-15, 09:01 AM
  #24  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,341
Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 936 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
That shouldn't make any difference.
In an extreme case it might if the axle was too long, removing the springs might make a difference, the Surley unit as imaged here is not doing what it was designed to do, save adding room for the axle and springs. That is most likely the true source of the problem if the situation is resolved now.
repechage is offline  
Old 05-21-15, 01:39 PM
  #25  
shoota 
Senior Member
 
shoota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: not sure
Posts: 6,343
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1000 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 24 Posts
In case anyone reads this down the line, I used to have this problem too. No amount of force would keep the steel, internal cam skewers from letting the wheel slip. UNTIL I realized the inside face of the dropout and the inside of the skewer, where they meet, had a clear thin film of grease. Probably chain lube but not much was there. Anyway, cleaned that off both surfaces and haven't had a problem since. Surprised no one mentioned that yet.
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2015 Cannondale SuperX Hi-Mod
shoota is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.