Has Jan gone off the deep end?
 

First, Jan Heine told me my 23mm tires were too narrow, so I gave 28s a shot. Great! Then he had me put 32s on my commuting bike. Fantastic! But I really can't see a context in which I'd need/want anything larger. I know a lot of 650B enthusiasts love their 42s, and I took some for a test spin once, but I'm just not sure it's for me.

Now, the soon to be released Compasses are 58mm in diameter. That's a 2 inch wide tire! Wider than a lot of mountain bike tires, yet knobless for road riding. Per Jan:

Haven't we hit a point of diminishing returns on this? I can't forsee any reason why I would need this much rubber.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/...lly-big-tires/

58mm is a bit over 2 inches.

Typo, my mistake. Corrected.

Like a fast food joint, you need to expand the menu to keep the customers returning and trying something new.
There comes a point when you need to "JUST BUY A MOUNTAIN BIKE"....

Well, what do I know, but I would guess it's a question of finding the ideal bike for the roads you most want to ride. And this is not going to be the same for all of us. So let's just look at my case:

I live about halfway between NYC and Philadelphia. Nearly all the roads in my area are paved. If I head east toward the coast (the "shore" as we call it in NJ), there are virtually no hills, and virtually no unpaved roads. Certainly no unpaved roads that go anywhere. If I head northwest, there are nice hills and a couple unpaved sections of roads, some as long as a quarter mile long.

There are unpaved paths, primarily the canal towpath... nice but boring.

And then there's the Pinelands, also known as the Pine Barrens. Somewhere between 30 and 40 miles south, I get into the pines, and there are some serious unpaved roads. Long roads that go from one end of the forest to the other. And the surface is sand. Sometimes hard packed sand that I can ride over with 32 mm tires. But sometimes it's a little too dry or a little too wet and 32's bog down, and you have to walk. And once you start walking, it can be really hard to get on the bike again. Fatter tires, at lower pressure, roll over the thin crust and you can keep riding. So 32's are barely accepatable; 35's are better, and 38's are better yet. I haven't been down on those roads since I put 42's on my Holdsworth, but I mean to try it pretty soon, but to me, those 48's look pretty tempting. Alas, I don't have a bike that would fit them.

As for the 58 mm tires, they don't exist. They got some labeled as 58, but they measure 54.

Nah, Jan is trying to get things to the point where your MTB is superfluous next to your rando bike. :lol:

A wider 26 inch ski wall tire for road and gravel is great news. Quality 26 inch wheel sets for cheap are a reality, whereas it is much more difficult to find 650b's and you don't have iffy brake setups on mtb frames.

58's might be just the thing when I get around to realizing the re-imagining of the Privateer. It is a mountain bike, but I would prefer that it be something that I can also ride on the road without making the sacrifice of using MTB tires.

I'm just waiting for the Compass tires fat bike to debut in the next issue of Bicycle Quarterly.

Perhaps it'll happen in the April edition next year. ;)

I'd really like to try them, but I can't imagine myself spending $175 on a pair of tires.

I note that these are 26"/559 tires, so maybe those old rigid MTBs with gobs of clearance will be the only type of frame that'll work.

One could argue that he's been there for quite a while. ;)

I've recently been reading through the back issue catalog of BQ and it's very interesting to see ideas that were featured in the test runs in the 2009/10/11 issues come to fruition today. As mentioned above, a lot of what BQ is after are the ideal components for the terrain they like to ride. This appears to be a lot of mountain roads, gravel/dirt and some light trails. The flip is being able to turn around and get their audience engaged with the components and develop items that are missing from the marketplace to satisfy a demand create partially by the publication.

It seems to be working fairly well as a lot of the component types and philosophy has been co-opted by larger market participants like Surly/Soma/etc. I'm not quite sure I need such large tires but it is very interesting seeing the 26" all-road concept develop over time.

This is it here: http://ravn.rawlandcycles.com/

The idea came from Jan's riding of the Oregon Outback. He said that his 42mm 650b tires tended to sink in soft, sandy, soil and that a wider tire would float a bit more on that surface type. In addition, lots of people are now riding non-paved roads and this allows them to use an exisitng frame type if they want to. Grab that old steel Trek 950 and throw some of these on the bike and take off. You can ride to the regular road to the non-paved road without the knobby-tire-on road penatly. I would love to try these at some point.

Why get worked up about what the "intent" is? I welcome lots of new things to try. You never know, they might just be better than what you currently have. They might not but why feel threatened?

Yeah. I keep coming back to that page and thinking: I want one.

I do ride 60mm tires in the city, and they're a hoot, but I'm not sure if I want to do the kind of mad 1200 rando's Jan does on them.

Nothing new here if you switch to 26" instead of 650B, the Schwalbe Big Apple has been there for years. I have never rode on them, but I am considering trying a set on my 26" wheeled hybrid if they'll fit. Keeping my 700c hybrid configured with the "narrower" 35 mm tires.

great, now i need a new bike again, so i can fit these tires

I believe Jan said in the last issue of BQ (not the issue that just came out), that ~58s are likely hitting the point of diminishing returns for mixed surface riding.

I agree with what RHM stated in post #5 above. Yesterday I went out for a ride consisting of:
-Paved shoreline roads
-Paved shoreline roads in really...bad...condition
-Fine gravel
-Concrete
-Wood plank docks
-Coarser gravel
-Double track biking/hiking trails in the woods
-Single track biking/hiking trails in the woods
-Really, really steep single track in the woods (~20% grade+)
-Rocky, rolling trails along power lines (avg. rock size around 1", plenty of 2"+ thrown in the mix)

Yesterday was my first time stringing these roads and paths together, it will become one of my main riding loops in my area.

I was on a bike set up with:
-650b x 38mm tires
-30/36/46 tooth chainrings
-14-32 tooth 6sp freewheel

The tires and gearing were fantastic for most of it, adequate for some of it, BUT 38s felt way too skinny on the rolling rocky power line trail. The bike does not have mechanical suspension, so the added pneumatic suspension of a REALLY fat tire would have been a real benefit. With 38s I was riding the brakes in sections of the rocky trail and got plenty loose. I would've loved to let 'er rip, but the tires weren't up to it (or I wasn't up to it with those tires).

Application dictates necessity. Applications may change day to day (which is why it's perfectly sane to have several bikes).

If I had one bike, it would not have ~58s. More than one bike, I'd love to have one with ~58s for those deep wood, rocky excursions.

Schwalbe tires are not made for comfort. I have ridden thousands of miles on Big Apples, and they are wide, but not supple. They are heavy, and unless inflated to full pressure, they feel really slow. At full pressure, they are as hard as oak. They are, as I understand it, exactly the kind of tire Jan wants us to get away from. But, to be sure, I have not ridden Jan's high-zoot 2" tires, so I can only repeat what I read.

Thanks for the warning... I was looking for comfort on the 2+ inch wide tires... I'll have to find a more comfort oriented tire. I don't seem to have issues with punctures in my usual rides, so maybe something less puncture resistant would get me the cushiness I seek. :)

Way out of my element in this discussion but I ride 58's on my commuter. They probably aren't the most optimal in terms of weight or applicable to the discussion but they are nearly indestructible and add the fly wheel effect! Panasonic Uff Da, 2.3 inch = 58mm on a 97 RockHopper with fenders.
[IMG]https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2828/1...807c56fe_b.jpg1997 Specialized RockHopper on Flickr[/IMG]

If you can tolerate using knobbies there's lots of 2"+ tires in 27.5" size, mountain bike speak for 650b.

My wifes bike has 2.1 inch that are much lighter but no longer available.
[IMG]https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3761/1...e57f1441_b.jpgREI Novara Aspen on Flickr[/IMG]
Purchased in 1999:
[IMG]https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2848/1...d3abea07_b.jpgP1010337 on Flickr[/IMG]

Like him or not, Jan has a very good track record when it comes to tires. Since he conducted and published his trials and explanations about rolling resistance, Professionals are now routinely riding with wider tires in quite a few races. My experience with Grand Bois tires has been excellent.

Just yesterday, I was trying to compute the best value for building a 650B wheelset. Seeing as how the bicycle I was contemplating doing it with already runs 26" with loads of clearance, now I'm just looking at changing out tires. Might save me enough to get that beast a sweet paint job.