Italian Frames/Bikes
 

Hope everyone is enjoying the season.

I have new found room in my garage - thanks to an impending HUGE garage sale.

The two bikes I have on my wish list are 1) Italian and 2) drop bar Mt bike conversion.

I think I have the Mt bike down - I will look for a Schwinn or Univega frame that fits and should have the rest to finish.
I know almost nothing re. Italian bikes. Please help.
I like the looks of CIOCC-but know nothing about them other than the way they look.

My taste is mid-to nice.
It doesn't have to be the best of the best, but it cannot be the low side of mid-to-lower.
What should I be looking for. The time period I am interested in is mid-80's to mid-90's - give or take.
60 cm frame is perfect.
I do better on somewhat relaxed geometry frames-I gravitate towards the touring bikes - Schwinn Voyageurs, Trek 520,620,720.
I do appreciate the collective knowledge this forum provides.
Budget - I would like to find a bike for $500 or less that needs only servicing.
However, I am willing to spend more on a frame - then wait to accumulate components and finish next year.
I am very patient, and simply want a great looking, great riding bike that will give joy the rest of my life.
Thanks.

For some unexplained reason, I have a preference for Italian steeds. My list of desirables is long and getting longer the more I frequent this site! Your list was fine until the statement of relaxed geometry frames. It might just be me but I don't associate Italian frames with relaxed geometry. That being said, I am sure there are plenty, just not the marques I have in mind, COICC is one of them.

So here is my list and you can do a search on this forum for each:

De Rosa
Colnago
Pinarello
CIOCC
Masi
Bottecchia - possibility here for you
Olmo
Bennetto
Tommasini
Gios
Bianchi
Cinelli
......

I would not discount other countries makes either, Japan, UK, Dutch, since you already mentioned Trek, USA. There are some fine French bikes too, just different dimensions of parts limiting options.

It's all preference, and to some extent it's hype. It also depends on the era you're getting the bike from, and it depends on your budget. You have to ride them and see what you like.

My preference is for De Rosa as far as the big name. I like a lot of the smaller builders...Marnati, Galmozzi, Tomassini, Picchio, Grandis. I LOVE my older Cinelli, but would be less interested in an 80s-90s one.

I'm not especially Wild about Ciocc...but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be.

Italian bike manufacturers are known for racing bikes, not relaxed touring bikes.

He'd have to go a lot older for that...the clearances and geometry were generally a lot more relaxed before the 80s. I have an old Frejus that feels darn nice and sports tourer'ish. You wouldn't want a rack on it, but the 60s and earlier 70s Cinellis are not hyper aggressive.

You should probably avoid Colnago with what you said. You'd likely prefer De Rosa.

Just saw the budget...you're in Olmo, Bottechia, made somewhere else Bianchi, Atala territory. Honestly I'd stick to what you know and like. I'd rather have a $500 Japanese bike than a $500 Italian most of the time. You could get lucky, but you'd have to know the smaller names...and even then, it's unlikely to have that relaxed sports tourer feel.

Ciocc is certainly in the upper ranks.

If you like the feel of a touring bike, look for an Italian racing bike from the '60s or early '70s. Earlier ones were more relaxed and more biased toward comfort. The lists seem to thing this was because roads were worse. In the late '80s and '90s geometries were getting steeper and ride stiffer.

I have a couple of Mondonicos and a couple of '80s Treks. The '80s Treks, while nice, are not in the same league as the great Italians. On paper, yes. On the road, no.

Also, Mondonico always was advertised as having "stage race geometry," and my two are a bit more laid back than modern roadies. The moniker was supposed to indicate that the bike will feel reasonably comfortable for a TdF or a Giro d'Italia (i.e. for a super-trained rider) and I can say I have been happy on these bikes for 60 milers. More so than my Treks, actually.

We have a local shop that used to push Mondonico...they were pretty bikes, and they did have more sensible clearance.

If your looking for relaxed geometry consider a Merckx Century.

Not at $500 ;)

Something like a Lemond Zurich on the other hand...

I have done multiple metric and full centuries on my Pinarello...and it is both aluminum and race geometry!

If I had $500 to spend and wanted a sport/touring geometry, I'd buy a Miyata or other high end Japanese bike. If I wanted something European with Campagnolo parts, I'd buy an English or Dutch bike.

Always had a hankering for a Gazelle, personally. Great graphics.

I'm an Italophile also. You'll have a hard time finding the higher end stuff in a complete bike for $500 but you may luck into a CL find with some patience. A nice Rossin is on my wish list. These are quality frames (Rossin was an early frame builder for Ernesto Colnago) which don't command the premium of some of the other Italian makers. Moser has a hit or miss reputation, but I really like mine with Columbus SL tubes.

As noted above, the Merckx Century was designed specifically as a quality bike with more relaxed geometry. Not Italian but hey, it's Belgian and designed by the Cannibal! (Or one of his minions)

You should be able to find a very nice upper-mid range Italian bike for $500, especially if you are patient. Save a Craigslist search, and check in here frequently.

Both my Colnago and Pinarello were acquired for less than $500. Both were negotiated and were unusual finds in both cases. As @jeirvine stated, "especially if you are patient." The Bottecchia purchase was also a CL negotiated acquisition but not a great deal, perhaps a bit high for what it is but it was way under $500 and is complete but rough.
@jjames1452 Want to see pictures? there are a couple of threads here with titles like "Show me your xxxxxx", including Italian bikes. So if you are interested in a brand stick that in the x's, if a range, use Italian bikes

As others pointed out, few Italian bikes have what one would call a relaxed geometry. They typically have racing geometry with steep angles and short wheelbases. Some of the older Italian bikes like Legnanos might fit the bill, but that could require some diligent restoration and searching for odd parts.

Eddy Merckx century frames have a more relaxed geometry but they are not Italian (Belgian) except for very early models made by De Rosa. Merckx frames are not touring geometry, however, and will still have short chain stays, tight clearances for tires and no fender or rack mounts.

If you want a classic road bike with a more relaxed geometry and touring features, I would focus more on British bikes such as Mercian or Bob Jackson, or some of the nicer Japanese touring and sport touring bikes such as Miyata, Lotus, Univega.

Many Italian makers did a full range of bikes, from basic gas pipe up to race-level (Bottechia, Bianchi, and Atala spring to mind), while some only do top tier stuff (e.g. Masi, DeRosa). So pay attention to tubing, drops, and components, as much as the maker.

+1 - no sense buying a bike just because it's from a certain country, especially when what you want isn't really the same as what you'd likely find.

One interesting option may be the BMZ contracted Performance or Palo Alto sports tourers...Italian built, but to a U.S. all arounder Spec. If memory serves, Via has one of the BMZ Perfromance sports tourers available.

Upon reflection, Bianchi did make some nice sport touring bikes in the 1980s -- complete with Celeste green paint and mounts for fenders. My first nice road bike was a Bianchi Nuovo Record and it had those features, and I many times regretted selling that bike. Used Bianchis are rampant on eBay and Craiglist and you should be able to find a nice sport touring model with some patience.

Save funds to buy a bike in good shape. Rare will be a $500. Top line Italian bike and for good reason. More like 2x to 3x.
Learn about the brands and eras.
Plenty of conversation of the forum to inform you, unfortunately the archives are not the easiest to navigate, so keep reading.
I will agree with others, for a more relaxed Italian road bike, the era would be ending in the very early 70's.
The presentation of 80's to 90's reads index shifting, forget that attribute.

Thank you - that gives me a good search list to study.

It sounds like I should be looking a decade or more back.

Thank you - that is a maker I have not heard of.

Thanks - I will add to the search list.

Interesting - I have been looking at Lemond Zurich's. Will continue.