rootboy 

That's true enuf.

CliffordK

As far as gluing tubulars... the only ones I've had problems with are the ones I decided to not glue and hope the rim was sticky enough.

Aren't some of the new ones pre-glued? Or using a glue strip? It would seem it would be pretty easy to do.

But, one might argue that anybody riding them should know how to replace them anyway. Just sell the tires and glue (or is that a liability issue too?)

There is at least one local shop that only sells cheap fixies, maybe more.

USAZorro

You guys who have issues with your LBS's need to move. Heaven help you if you live near Champaign, IL.
Harrisburg, PA and Cincinnati have some great ones.

To me, it's a matter of honesty and respect. I'm not going to try to change a shop's policies about what they will or won't do, but I won't accept "can't" when the reason is "won't". I can respect "won't", even if I'm not happy about it. I do always let the shop know that I do most of my own work, but then I'm willing to let them have a shot at getting the business when I do choose to get something new. I'm open to opinions and options, but please respect me.

likebike23

For all the talk about bike shops being in trouble it seems odd that a shop would turn away any business. Perhaps instances such as this are the reason why so many shops are in trouble. It seems to me that if the motivation for the shop is to push the customer toward a new bike then shouldn't they be as honest as possible? Who wants to do business with a liar? Perhaps the issue is the lack of professionalism with bike shops. It is unprofessional to lie to customers. If they were not lying, then the fact that they gave false information was unprofessional.
I said before that there is no excuse for cluelessness with all of the information online. This holds true for the customer and the shop. It would seem to me that if your business model is to steer customers toward new bikes, then you should SELL them a new bike. Telling somebody that their bike cannot be fixed, when it obviously can, is not selling in my opinion.

noglider 

The burden is greater than you might expect. A bike shop owner tallied the number of SKUs he used in a single year: 40,000!

Phil_gretz

I inherited my brother's 1964 Impala last summer. Attempting to get publicity to sell it, I brought it to a local car show to display as "for sale". Some klutz backed into it at the show, and I had to obtain repair estimates.

My local shops (there are many in this DC car-centered culture) would not even estimate the repair due to inavailability of parts* and lack of a book on the model. We had to find a restorer miles away to estimate the repair.

I received the insurance settlement after I had sold the car, so that was a plus.

* I had no trouble locating chrome bits and bezels on the internet, even on eBay.

jimmuller 

Lots of good discussion here, but I'm thinking a point may have been missed (if not in the discussion itself then at least by me).

First, the obvious. Though a shop owner must understandably keep an eye out for profitability and inventory management, a good, involved shop owner should be interested in keeping customers happy. If the staff includes at least one good mechanic willing to work on older bikes then the shop should be willing to take it on. They should perhaps advise the customer that it may take some time, but parts can almost always be obtained. Even new parts have to be special ordered sometimes because they aren't kept in inventory.

The problem may be one of tribal knowledge. Newbie mechanics (by which I mean anyone younger than myself) might have learned much of what they know from other mechanics or from working on their own new bikes. If the senior guy on the staff says something can't be done then the junior guys will "know" it too and then tell the customer that. The next generation of newbie mechanics or summer employees (who stay on through the year) will then inherit the same belief. A knowledgeable, involved shop owner or foreman should be able to divert this kind of nonsense, but sometimes the shop owner isn't so involved or knowledgeable.

I've had LBS guys tell me "'Unusual' is something we don't do." Fair enough. At least that's an admission that by design they won't go there. "Can't be done" is probably a folklore/tribal knowledge error propagated over donuts and coffee.

ButchA

I've seen that too...

One reputable LBS in town has an older guy in there who appreciates C&V bikes and knows everything there is to know about them.

Another LBS is...okay...I guess, but when they ask you about your C&V bike (example: my '85 Fuji), they joke, "1985? Seriously? Wow, that was the year I was born!" Way to go kid, make me feel old!!!

And yet there is another LBS who I won't even bother with and they will not get my business... The whole place is filled a bunch of 20-somethings, and they almost demand that you check out their latest $5500 Cervelo or Specialized or whatever is on display. If you walk in dressed in a full kit, they'll go out of their way to help you. If you walk in asking about a Mtn bike or a Comfort bike (or God forbid... A C&V bike...) - forget it... They'll ignore you unless you speak up.

OldsCOOL

You can sniff the attitude coming down the street. They are carried away by a subculture rather than a love for bikes and bike riding. Business? Not if you dont care about people. I have seen this in operation far too many times.

rootboy 

I have two bike shop options available to me here. If I took one of my bikes into Bike Zone, the young guys would say "cool bike, but I don't have the parts for something that old." But they wouldn't say "can't be done."
If I took it over to George at Corner Cycle, he would say "sure, I can fix that."

Just have to pick the right shop.

repechage

Try to find an auto mechanic that can file and gap points in a distributor effectively today.
Separately, there is with index shifting a point in the service life of some lower tier bikes that replacement assemblies are not cost effective to replace, think index controls.

OldsCOOL

Exactly. There are the places that try to help. In a neighboring town a shop helped me try to find NOS cable guides for my Cannondale. I suspected they wouldnt find them but worth the asking. What I didnt expect is they called me back to say "sorry, cant find them". Back to our town, there is a "hidden" shop downtown that has a guy my age that is an authorized Waterford and frame builder. He drooled when I walked my '86 Trek 760 Pro Series in sporting full 531c and Campy. Cant wait for the day I walk my '77 Colnago in. He gets distracted.

Dave Cutter

The current/modern/average Local Bicycle Shop does not meet the needs and expectations of the typical bicyclist. This will not last forever. Someone will create a new model of what bicycle shop is supposed to be like. Or.. maybe we will continue to see vintage cycling move into the hobby and on-line communities.

Soody

There is a shop near my house which doesn't sell new bikes. It's pretty cool, I don't go there so much any more, but they were happy for me to take along problems on my first road bike (tange 5 with Exage) and teach me to fix them. They fix up old bikes sensibly to sell. A lot of people who walked in would bring a bike that hasn't seen any care in years. They only bring it in because they found it under a house or the problems are so bad it's unridable. It needs new everything. The shop has loads of sensibly priced new & second hand parts there, and reasonable labor prices, but that's still hundreds of dollars to do everything. Some people treat them very rudely when they learn it will cost more than $30 to fix their bike. The shop still has to pay the people who are skilled & pay people to teach the volunteers who aren't. It's one guy who owns it. It's a labor of love.

They nearly went under a few years ago because a guy who worked there was stealing from them. More sustainable bike shops are very vulnerable to people stealing from them. I don't go there so often now because I would bring parts in, bring them home, take my time on stuff, and the trust can never be 100% there (i'm not worried about being stolen from, I just don't like being watched). They're all friendly people, it's just that the place is a huge functional mess & there's so much stuff to take.

The other side of it are bike shops like this that service the stolen bike trade, which sucks. I don't know any shops that knowingly participate, but a hell of a lot of bikes get nicked, and they have to go somewhere.

rhm

Bike shops of the kind you describe used to be pretty common, and they still exist. I stumbled on this one called the Cosmic Wheel, in Callicoon, NY, while on a bike tour last summer. Here it is, with its proprietor, a super nice guy who I don't believe even knows the phrase "can't be fixed."



And I know a place on Long Island that fixes not only bikes that can't be fixed, but shoes that can't be fixed.

70sSanO

I think the current/modern model is the model that is found is a lot of brick and mortar retail industries, not just cycling. The days of any selection of items, especially parts for older items, is long gone. It has forced a number of people to go online which in some ways has been a blessing in generally getting lower prices than what brick and mortar can offer.

The one retail area I see that may start to pop up are bicycle repair like auto repair. There is a shop close to where I live that is almost strictly a repair shop. Similar to a car dealer vs. independent mechanic. They have some parts for sale, and also sell some used bikes, but their business is repairing bicycles. You can bring in your own parts or they can get them; probably depends on what you need. Since I do nearly all of my own work, I generally take in stuff that I don't want to tackle, such as rebuilding suspension forks. They do have a good selection of Park tools and can get any tool if you need it. I'll order from them before ordering elsewhere. They are also quick to give advice on stuff I am doing. Good people.

John

noglider 

@jimmuller makes a very important distinction between "can't be done" and "we prefer not to," and how the latter gets mistranslated into the former.

The shops that prefer not to do some kinds of work have a legitimate point of view. One of the forces at play is the way the manufacturers keep changing the market, multiplying the amount of stuff you have to know. It multiplies the kinds of stuff you have to stock, making that impossible if you're not Amazon or some other behemoth. A business can compensate a little by being smart, but intelligence and expertise are finite commodities, not easy to come by.

There are some shops who can do this work, and the owners are smart, but the shops are generally not as profitable. That's why we have to be more self-reliant and expert. I suppose this is one of the big points raised in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

crank_addict

Liability of a bike shop.
Until someone here mentioned shops refusal to mount tubulars, I never thought of their liability. Thats sad. Litigation kills everything and but can very much relate to a bike shops concerns.

For years I was supplying parts and making reproduction parts for 40's-1960 era workshop machinery. A side hobby for those sharing the same interest and in keeping this old stuff in service. Takes considerable dedication, a labor of love but a terrible biz plan.
And like old bikes, the machine as a whole is not worth near as if parted. I have a hoard load and parted machines to keep those other enthusiast happy. At least that was the idea.

That last part to the worst degree. You see, I would OFTEN GIVE away parts and yet still have some greedy bastads want extra spares and for no cost! Also, the complaints of an old part may not fit to exact, or a 1950 part interchange and works but not identical for their 1948.....lalala. But the real horror came from a letter of a potential suit. An idiot owner of a 'dangerous' machine (LOL) and a non-factory adapter 'could have caused him bodily harm'! Firstly, the original company is long gone but my point is, one can get dragged thru and expense of law, just for being a nice guy. It burned me up enough where I'd almost bring all to the recycler and cash in for pittance.

BTW: Think again if you believe thats what insurance is for. Its going to cost you one way or the other.

So if a bike shop owner seems a bit stale about a prospect bringing an old bike in for service, ordering a part for nominal profit, CC process fee's and all that nit-pick overhead, I don't blame him for refusal. You have to learn to respect their choice.

Now if there's a scrupulous motive for taking a rare expensive classic in for pittance trade, thats a different story.

dddd

Of course the local market environment largely determines which services that any kind of shop will offer, but also within each shop there is huge seasonal variation in demand, such that some services may be practical to offer only at certain times.

On top of that, any shop may need to effect "random" variations in suitable profit strategy as well as in their current staff, such that not only may certain services become impractical, but where quality-control might even vary quite noticeably. At some point, shop owners may close their doors before allowing things to get too iffy, both in terms of profitability and quality, and here is where years of experience allows the owner to make best real-time decisions as to how they operate during more difficult times.

Of course the customer may not see or recognize any of this when they walk in the door.

Pemetic2006

I live in Harrisburg. May I ask which shop you are referring to?

Thanks.

USAZorro

Pedal Pushers is relatively C&V friendly - or at least they were a few years ago. The long-time owner (Jay), and the fellow who took over after him (Ted) were both quite good about that. Merv's (near Shippensburg) is probably never going to change. They are Mennonites, and not especially talkative, but if you go there when they aren't slammed (they are a small shop, but they probably sell more bikes than anyone within 50 miles), and ask them about older parts, or parts for older bikes, they are quite good. Their service prices are also very reasonable. Finally, World Cup Ski & Cycle. Yes, they are pricier than the others, and are quite heavily into what's new, but they are really good about special ordering, are good at what they do and are straight with you, especially when it comes to service, and they do have an appreciation for older bicycles.

Naturally, forming a relationship with the folks at the shop does help to a degree, so you may not get red carpet treatment on your first visit, but I don't hesitate to suggest any of those three shops.

Warning - there's a really old bike shop in Carlisle (won't mention it by name, but it's on the main drive in the northeast part of town). I went there exactly once, and had no desire to ever return.

ButchA

Sounds like that You Tube guy from Long Island called "BikemanforU"... Everything he does is "old school".

The guy has a website too, from what I recall: BikemanforU: Shop Bike Parts, Free Shipping

Dave Cutter

I think you may have hit it! Such a shop could pop-up in any retail space... or any type of space properly zoned. Or even be mobile in a trailer for minor repairs. Which could be set-up at cycling events.

crank_addict

This guy has a neat venture. Came across him after answering an ad for a wheelset and happened to be traveling thru the city. Has a unique shop and involved with art / metal fab work. Pedal To The People - About Us

iab

Since this came third hand, I expect the conversation was something like this:

Shop Guy - Hello. How may I help you.
Old Man - I would like new tires for my bike.
SG - Tubulars? I'm sorry, we don't carry tubulars. In fact, I don't know of a shop nearby that does. We do carry a lot of clincher tires.
OM - OK, can I get some clincher wheels for my bike.
SG - We do have several clincher wheels but they are more modern and have a different rear spacing and won't fit on your bike. We don't have anything in the shop that would fit.
OM - Get off my lawn.

No lying. Again, he has no steak to sell in his vegan restaurant. And most in restaurants in the area are vegan.

Now this is how the armchair C&Ver would handle it.

SG - Hello. That is an awesome bike. <20 minutes of gushing later.> How may I help you?
OM - I would like new tires for my bike.
SG - Tubulars? Cool. Let me take you through a thread called "Totally Tubular". It is a million posts long and will take all day to view. But you will learn about the hundreds of options for tires and glue and how to glue the tires on your wheels. Good tubulars will cost you $250 retail for the pair, but I'll give them to you for 5% over wholesale. Still spendy at $130 and I'll throw in labor. Or you could try clinchers, they are cheaper.
OM - OK, can I get some clincher wheels for my bike?
SG - Sure. We could get you some deep dish with the proper spacing because most track wheels are aero. Or I could spend the next 10 days on ebay finding you box rims and lace them to your hubs. It will take weeks and cost only $200 at the wholesale price I will give you. Labor is free.
OM - Get off my lawn.