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another cheapie tubular thread

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another cheapie tubular thread

Old 07-17-15, 12:55 PM
  #1  
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another cheapie tubular thread

Ok,

Just acquired a tubular wheelset (campy hubs....probably tipo and mavic mp4 rims) that will go great with the torpado

I keep telling myself I am going to do the tubular thing cheapo, unlike every other bike project i do.

so here are my questions:

What is best solvent for getting ride of the old (reddish) glue?

For cheapie tubies Vittoria Rally or Continental Giro or yellow jacket 3 for 50? What is your experience

Does anyone know if these have removable valve cores? (not clear from what I found so far)

I am leaning toward the Vittoria ($16 or so on ribble)

I am thinking Velox jantex tape? experience?

or go with glue


or is going cheapo dumb and take next step up and roughly double the tire cost

thanks all
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Old 07-17-15, 01:10 PM
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okay,

if you have a dremel with a copper brush that does well to knock off old dried glue. if it's just a thin layer on the rim leave it and scuff it up with some sandpaper.

I don't have any experience with the Yellow Jersey tires, but have with the GIro and Vittoria. I like the Vittoria, it at least looks vintage.
Know that neither one will give you a good tubular ride, you just won't get the full feeling, or the tubular sound....
I'd spend a bit more and go for the Vittoria corsa elite ($33 per).

My only experience with the Jantex tape was years ago and it wasn't great.
I have used the Tufo tape, it works just make sure you get the Tufo Extreme tape.

Personally I'd start with tape, then if you like the whole Tubular experience learn to glue a tire.

Marty
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Old 07-17-15, 01:20 PM
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Powered brass wire wheel is good removal tool.

I have done the 3/50 YJ and they are ok. I doubt I will go back and they do have removable cores to squeeze flat tire repair goop. What is nice about this approach is the low cost of entry. You get two tires and a spare so if you experience a flat, you have the spare to continue. This also allows you to have the tubular experience with the knowledge that most of us that have tubular experience can tell you it get better with more expensive tires. The other benefit is that if you like riding tubies, you can get much better ones and use the YJ's as spares.

I have not used tape and don't intend to due to cost. This is C&V, therefore I want to experience the full amount(I was going to say "Monty") which requires applying glue. Hey, you should know how to friction shift with DT shifters and glue tires!
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Old 07-17-15, 01:25 PM
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If it's really crusty, I will carefully go at it with a rounded paint scraper. Otherwise, I just apply glue over the old stuff. It seems to work fine; it's all I can do to get the tires off the rim again.

I haven't tried tape, been using glue for years and it's not that bad.

I have had decent luck with the YJ tires, but I'm not a connoisseur of fine rubber, so take that with a grain of salt. The way I look at them, they are alright if the wheels you have are tubular and you want to get moving on a budget. If you are deliberately moving to tubulars for the ride experience, they aren't the tires you want. I will let others expound on what those would be.
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Old 07-17-15, 01:29 PM
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Once caveat to the tape, it's great for applying but a bitch to get off, especially from a tire.

Marty
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Old 07-17-15, 01:32 PM
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My experience with the red stuff is that it has aged too far to be of any value. I remove it all. The wire wheel, even on a 1/4 or 3/8" drill works really well and fast. Using a scraper can damage the surface and put scrapes and gouges in the rim .

turn the bike over and leave the wheel on the bike. Angle the wire wheel so that the rim will rotate as the glue is removed. The closer to 90 degrees between the wire wheel and the rim rotation direction, the slower the rotation of the wheel. Will only take a few min to get the surface clean. You will spend more time applying glue to the base tape.
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Old 07-17-15, 01:52 PM
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Vittoria Rallies are definite good enough tires to get the advantages of tubs over HP clinchers, plus they have a Kevlar belt in them to help ward off punctures. But you'd be best to buy it from a bike shop where you can personally choose the best ones that they have in stock as quality control, in terms of luminescent at the valve area and straightness of the tread and base tape tends to be quite inconsistent from tire to tire, but I have had luck finding good ones from a bike shop's stock....
As for glue, Continental glue had always worked best for me. Viscosity is about perfect for spreading on the rim surface without causing a dribbling mess.... I use my bare 8ndex finger for appying/spreading the glue with most control. I just have a rag soaked in some mineral spirits next to me to periodically clean my fingers and the rim of any wayward glue....
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Old 07-17-15, 01:56 PM
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I use latex gloves over my fingers to spread the glue. Actually use a couple in the process but it saves making a mess. One of the YJ's came with a lump near the valve. YJ exchanged it, I had to pay for the return shipping.
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Old 07-17-15, 02:02 PM
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I like Vittoria Mastik.
If you're going to use glue, a clear glue is a good idea for first time. Panaracer makes a decent one.

I prefer an Acid brush for applying glue, especiallly if you get a can/tub of glue and not a tube.
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Old 07-17-15, 02:05 PM
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Your call but don't expect long term use or ultimate ride with the cheapies. That said, I think they have their place. Perhaps as a limited use rider, a second wheelset, or simply a spare or the road.

For me and rotating bikes mostly with tubulars, I don't see the need to spend the extra. Yet for some truly special wheel's, or for others that race, I wouldn't expect them to bother with any of these cheapo's. Simply not worth it for those applications.

No experience with the Yellow Jersey's.

Vitt. Rallys - Old stock Italian produced, yes. Its probably been a number of years but now Asian made. Gamble at best, but I'd take a pass.

Conti Giro - Mediocre ride, Asian made, expect some with poor mold and layer. Though if you order them, there's different Giro's or maybe its a change in production. I'm not sure but would advise asking vendor if they have the small screened logo type and short valve stem. Ideal for the vintage look but those don't have a removable core.

Challenge 'Vulcano' - Only in blackwall, ugly large screen logo. Of the bunch, a decent rider, fair longevity in ride use only, though a different matter for just keeping as a spare. Butyl type. 18 - 24 month only as they naturally disenegrate and rubber flakes off.

Clement - Old name and original company gone. Revised once again and now made in Asia. Since you ask about cheepie tubulars, I'll stay on topic and discuss the Super Condor. Best looking for classic / vintage. Nice small logo, though I think the www. thing is molded in- yuk. Weird pricing and I believe clever marketing guys are playing on the consumer. They screened differnt names, such as Colnago or other on them. Its sometimes sold for $15 each to $130 each! Just sayin' and what I've physically seen.

Light enough but cotton wrapped. Mold and layer quality is rather on the poor side. I'm not sure why the ride is respectable other than perhaps its thin and the weight is down?? I don't expect longevity from them but I'll report later. Also, in the same classification, I'm awaiting the file pattern tread version called the Futur CX (cross). Same scenerio as above and priced all over the map.

Adhesives:
Tufo tape works excellent. Once its on, ITS ON. Forget trying to remove this stuff other than leaving the wheel out in the cold to chill it, then scrape. No other issue than paying a premium. Continental glue is my fave. 25gm tube to do two wheels plus leftover for the road / spare. Its clear and excess cleans easily. For application, I use disposable acid brushes. A dozen pack from HF is a buck or two.
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Old 07-17-15, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
Ok,
What is best solvent for getting ride of the old (reddish) glue?
Use a heat gun if you have one, not solvent; the fumes aren't as bad and it's much faster. Otherwise, mineral spirits (paint thinner) I think. I started out with paint thinner on a rag on the first rim I tried cleaning, and the old red glue was so thick and hard, the thinner was only making a dent in it after 5-6 min, so I went to the heat gun and had the whole rim slick as a whistle in about 15 minutes. You need tossable rags to wipe up the melted glue, and at least one heavy glove to protect your hand from the heated rim. I usually melt one section between three spokes, wipe clean, them move to the next section.

Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
For cheapie tubies Vittoria Rally or Continental Giro or yellow jacket 3 for 50? What is your experience
Haven't tried the 3/$50 ones yet. The Vittoria Ralys I bought flatted three times in ~14miles.

Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
Does anyone know if these have removable valve cores? (not clear from what I found so far)
Good question! Answer: no, they don't. So there's good way I know of to add Stan's or other sealants into them to help prevent flats.

Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
I am leaning toward the Vittoria ($16 or so on ribble)
My bet is you'll regret it.

Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
I am thinking Velox jantex tape? experience?

or go with glue
I haven't tried tape yet, the glue is a bit messy, but I'm used to working with stuff like that, so it's what I've been using.


Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
or is going cheapo dumb and take next step up and roughly double the tire cost
I love going cheap myself, but this time it was a waste of time and money, and now I'm back to square one with more expensive tires. I hope they hold up A LOT better than the Rallys, or my relationship with tubies will be a very brief one.
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Old 07-17-15, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by lotek View Post
okay,

if you have a dremel with a copper brush that does well to knock off old dried glue. if it's just a thin layer on the rim leave it and scuff it up with some sandpaper.

I don't have any experience with the Yellow Jersey tires, but have with the GIro and Vittoria. I like the Vittoria, it at least looks vintage.
Know that neither one will give you a good tubular ride, you just won't get the full feeling, or the tubular sound....
I'd spend a bit more and go for the Vittoria corsa elite ($33 per).

My only experience with the Jantex tape was years ago and it wasn't great.
I have used the Tufo tape, it works just make sure you get the Tufo Extreme tape.

Personally I'd start with tape, then if you like the whole Tubular experience learn to glue a tire.

Marty
I like the Yellow Jersey tires, they give a better tubular experience than either the Rallye or the Giro. I also like the Gommitalia ... cheap one; forgot the name! It's not the Espresso that Marty here used to laud.

If the OP's "new" tubular wheels have Campy hubs and Mavic GP-4 rims (never heard of an MP-4), that is probably a fine, light set of wheels.
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Old 07-17-15, 02:20 PM
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Yes I lauded the Espresso, great tire. Supposed to be closet current to the old Clement Setas
the cheap ones are the Freccia or Champions? I've got no experience with those.
but again for about the same price I'd go with the Vittoria corsa elites.
agree 100% that those wheels deserve good tires.
Marty

edit: not the Freccia, those are 22, 24 and 26 inch tires.

Hey why not go for the Gommitalia platinum. only $200 each but handmade in Italy!
ciao
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Old 07-17-15, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by lotek View Post

Hey why not go for the Gommitalia platinum. only $200 each but handmade in Italy!
ciao
That deserves an ear bug......think of the song "you can take your brake, your achy brakey brake"
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Old 07-17-15, 03:07 PM
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Two words: Tufo
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Old 07-17-15, 04:49 PM
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In just went tubular last week. I have ridden tubulars before but never glued up a set myself. Well, it was a bit of a stressful experience, but, for the most part, went really well.

I probably used too much glue and, in the future, I will opt for the glue pot, not the tubes. I used an acid brush and bare hands. I had some lacquer thinner on hand, in case I needed to clean off some mess. But there was no mess. That, I found hard to believe...



The biggest issue, for me, was getting the tire centered and wobble free. I look at the tape, trying to get it even all the way around and even, side to side. Summoning all my courage, I would lift and center, lift and center, until the tire looked, pretty much, wobble free.

The first ride was good but not really a true test of the wheel set. I am stuck with French threaded pedals and can't clip in with my SPD's. Yes, I could tap the threads and I even have a brand new tap set, but I hate ruining something old, like my Stronglight 49d crank set...

Anyway, once the Continental Giros take a poop, I will install a good quality tire set. If I am going to the hassle of tubulars, I want the best experience, ride quality wise, that I can get.

The glue smells pretty good too!-)
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Old 07-17-15, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Two words: Tufo
My Vittoria Rallys were Tu Fo $41 (shipped); and that was no bargain
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Old 07-17-15, 05:46 PM
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^^ tu fo ~LOL

Though have to agree w/ Robbie on the products they don't qualify for the 'cheapo's. The $15 to $24 ea. is what I consider the cheapo's.
Here's the other version Conti Giro, non-removable valve core.




And a sample of the Clement cheapo. These do have a removable core. Not sure of the inner tube (butyl or latex?) as they slowly leak down.



Old stock (Italy) Vitto Rally. Non-removable valve core.



And for grins, the compromise tubular / clincher. --- NOT TUBULAR ---
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Old 07-17-15, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Two words: Tufo
21 or 24mm?
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Old 07-17-15, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
^^ tu fo ~LOL
You get tu fo' one this way.

I'm with randyj, if I was going to go through the trouble (and considering I was starting with pretty good wheels), I might as well try really good tires, not cheapos.

FWIW, I rode the Masi to work and back today after dropping a car off for service. It (the Masi, not the car) wears Veloflex Criteriums. They feel great.
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Old 07-17-15, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
You get tu fo' one this way.

I'm with randyj, if I was going to go through the trouble (and considering I was starting with pretty good wheels), I might as well try really good tires, not cheapos.

FWIW, I rode the Masi to work and back today after dropping a car off for service. It (the Masi, not the car) wears Veloflex Criteriums. They feel great.
Jim, is it just me or are Veloflex Criteriums harder than most other tubs to stretch over/mount on rims, as I had certainly a real hard of time installing it on my Fiamme Ergals.....
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Old 07-17-15, 06:14 PM
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To remove the dry tubular glue from the rim:

Park-Tool CB-2 Citrus ChainBrite is a pleasant way to remove the dried on tubular rim glue.

Doesn't take much, apply to the scrubby side of a household sponge.

I do it over the bathtub with a bath mat in place so the tub isn't scratched.

And, the water is right there for a final rinse.

I am on year #3 with the Servizio Corse (Y-J) tires, all I can afford, no problems.
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Old 07-17-15, 07:02 PM
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Durability is a component of value.
Cheaper in the long run > Cheaper in the short run.
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Old 07-17-15, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
21 or 24mm?
S 33 Pro in "21" are probably much cheaper. Wear like iron. I've not tried the 24's because my other Tufo's won't wear out.
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Old 07-17-15, 07:38 PM
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Just added Continental Gatorskin tubulars (25mm) to my '83 Paramount. I've had it out for about 75 miles and I'm loving the ride. I went with glue in a tube and followed the guidance of a YouTube video. I had no mess with the glue and no issues mounting.

Fun ride!

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