Schwinn Paramount Hierarchy?
 

Ok....here is real newbie question.....Is there a hierarchy within the model Paramount? I have read a lot of posts regarding Paramounts. Series numbers and model numbers are mentioned. Is there a general guide for evaluating a Paramount?

I'll assume you are talking about the Classic & Vintage models from the '60s and '70s. In that case there is not so much a hierarchy as there are simply different models for different purposes. For example the P11 was a tourist model available in '68 and earlier. The P14 was a fixed-gear track model. The P12 (standard 10-speed racer) became the P10 in '69. The P13 was the deluxe 10-speed road racer, and the P15 was the 15-speed "touring" model for '70 and later. If there was any hierarchy between similar models the P13 was the "deluxe" racer with several upgrades as compared to the P12/P10 standard racer. Of course the specific models also differed over the years. More info on model differences here: Schwinn Paramount Model Differences

I can't find the post....but the discussion was about Series 3 vs Series 7, the differences etc.
It seems there was a hiearachy. Each year was just (1) Paramount model released, lets say, 1975-1985? Or was there a low, mid, high model, all called "Paramount" released each year?

When Paramount production ended in Chicago in 1979 and moved to Waterford, WI in 1980, new variants were introduced. Basically '81-82 were 100% custom built and were known as "Elites." In '83 "Standards" were introduced as framesets only, and were as you might guess, made to standard sizes. These were available until late in '84, and then complete bikes were offered. I'll let those who are more expert in this area explain the mid to late 1980s Paramounts.

Elites and Standards are on the rare side, especially the Elites. One way to tell the difference is to look at the decal style.

Elites in the '81 Catalog:

http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1...90/1982_05.JPG

My '83 Standard:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...pss5gjdgns.jpg

The Series Paramounts were not Paramounts in the traditional sense. Many believe you have two groups of real Paramounts, the 1970s and before, built in Chicago, and the early 1980s and later, built in Waterford, WI. Its certainly debatable.

The series Paramounts were all imported bikes, some from China, some from Taiwan, and the highest end, from Japan. Series 7 was the highest of the steel models, Series 2 the lowest. Higher models would also have progressively better components (OK, there was a Series 9, one year only, CF model, made in USA). I've had series 3, 5, 7, 9C, and 70 (they had mtb models from a series 20 to series 90).

The "real" Paramounts did not have a pecking order, they were all the top model in the Schwinn product line.

IMHO, Schwinn under equipped the series Paramount product line from a component standpoint, in part perhaps to keep room between the imported models and their USA made bikes. For example, the series 2 came with Shimano 500EX components (nothing special). Series 7 and 9C came with Shimano 600. If I were "king" I would have put Dura Ace on the series 7 and 9, 600 Ultegra on the series 5, and I would not have had a series 2 or 3. I would have left Campy as the group of choice for the Waterford bikes, still providing some differentiation.

So, would you say, the "real" Paramounts, (prior to 1980), would be more sought-ater, generally? I see a lot of bikes, bikes that are for sale, each month. If a Paramount comes up, I just want to be able to evaluate it. Components tell me a lot about the "level" of the bike. But, I want to be able to distinguish a more sought-after from an average (if there is such a thing as an average Paramount.)

Yes, the Chicago built Paramounts ('79 and earlier) are more popular with collectors. But any of the Waterford made Paramounts are worth a look if you see one in your size. Best of luck in your search.

...it would help a little if you would state your objective. IOW, what is important to you in making this distinction, because I have had at least a couple of the Chicago 70's bikes, two or three of the Waterford production bikes, and a couple of the PDG Paramounts, and they are all relatively good bikes. What's important to a collector is not always the same as what's important to a rider, and even collectors have different purposes and desires. I personally like the shiny ones.:)

Pricewise, the PDG series bikes have always flown under the radar, and I think that's still the case.

Didn't Match Bicycle Co. in Seattle build Paramounts under contract in the 1990s?

IIRC, 1998 & 1999 only. At the same time, Serotta produced a Ti version, again, IIRC.

The Serotta Ti Paramounts and the Match cycles were a 60th anniversary thing. Very nice looking, if that's your thing. Serotta:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/533/1...880c2875_b.jpg

Match Reynolds 853:
http://i.imgur.com/M3ueOQO.jpg

Both bikes above recently seen on the Paceline forum.

When I worked in shops in the 80's I never cared for the Paramounts. I had an Italian bike and always dreamt of brands like Colnago. But I've really come to appreciate the Paramounts now all these years later - and would love to own one. They really were beautiful race bikes.

Well if you are looking for a hierarchy based on price, a chrome p-13/9 would be top of the hill, followed by a chrome p-15, then a chrome p-14. The p-15 has the most additions, eyelets, rack, bar-end shifters, but to the vintage race guys the p13/9 was the bike to have. Depending on where your interests may be, they are all fine bikes... But I would say especially in today's market, the chrome frames sell for much more than their painted counterparts. If you get further into paramount collecting than that, there are short coupled models called paramount sprints iirc, as well as bikes owned by famous executives, and others, so ones hierarchy of paramounts depends on ones complete perspective of the bikes and the brand.

....this sounds like an excuse to post another picture of my shiny one. :D Say what you want about Schwinn, those boys knew how to chrome a frame.

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