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Campagnolo "Syncro III" downtube shifters

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Campagnolo "Syncro III" downtube shifters

Old 08-13-15, 10:43 PM
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Campagnolo "Syncro III" downtube shifters

I just received a set of Campagnolo 10-speed Time Trial shifters. The alloy ones not the newer carbon ones. I had read on the internet that these in fact were just updated Campy downtube shifters with a third spring that Syncro II downtube shifters never had, eliminating some of the problems those early indexing shifters had. So these would be like Campy Syncro III downtube shifters, only Campy never used them or sold them that way, just sneaking them out there as Time Trial bar-end shifters.

Lo and behold when I received them I pried off the black rubber bar end shifter cover, and they actually engraved underneath with the Campy logo, and are nice looking Campagnolo downtube shifters, just mounted on the pods and covered up with the rubber bootie.

Now I have no interest in 10-speed, as I just pulled off a Mirage 2x10 drivetrain off a bike last week and threw it in a box. However, I had heard that Campagnolo indexing rings could be swapped out. What I don't know is how this is managed if you try to cross that 2001 timeline when the cable pull ratio changed or if the indexing shift rings from the Ergo shifters will work in the bar end shifters, or if you need special bar end shifter indexing rings.

I think I'd like to go to 8-speed. I'm going to give the bar ends one more chance, even though I hate bar end shifters. I just don't have enough Kelly Take-Offs to go around for all my bikes.

Several questions:

1. Do Campy downtube shifters connect using different downtube bosses than Suntour/Shimano?

I think this is true, and my fear is that I'd have to use the Campy shifters (with a different Indexing ring to get to 7/8 maybe 9) on Bar-ends instead of my beloved Kelly Take-Offs. Or I could try to get Kelly to make me a set of Take-Offs with Campy compatible bosses.

2. Do Campy barend shifters (the TT shifters) use different swappable indexing rings than the Ergo levers?

Some other posters showed the 8-speed Mirage triple/long cage components they had. I'm having a terrible time trying to find 8-speed triple/long Campy stuff. I see what I think is 9 speed Racing T or Comp T stuff, and lots of 10 speed Chorus/Record Campy derailleurs but not anything at all in 8-speed on eBay. How scarce is this this triple/long cage Campy 8-speed stuff. I'd really prefer vintage Campy 8 speed stuff, but I'd really want something better than Mirage (which I can't even find) or Racing T branded stuff (which I can't even find). I've never had a Campy group and I'd really like it to be Chorus or Record.

3. Can I use Campy 9 or 10 speed derailleurs with an 8 speed drivetrain? Will an 8 speed chain pass through say Chorus/Record 10-speed rear derailleurs without having to use pulley spacers?

I'll be using a Zinn or IRD 200mm crank, so a Campagnolo crankset isn't a factor in my build. Which is a train wreck because the ONE component I can find a ton of for Campy triple/long 8-speed are cranks.
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Old 08-14-15, 03:05 PM
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Nobody?

I really like these shifters because I want to use them with a C&V Campagnolo drivetrain and they should be an improvement on the Syncro and Syncro II, hence the Syncro III thread title.

The trick is I need to figure out which classic Campy indexing ring to use in them to convert them to 8-speed. I'm not sure that the barend/downtube shifters used different indexing rings from the Ergos or not.

Also, I'm having a terrible time figuring out what if anything is different between Campy 8-speed and 9-speed derailleurs, and whether they are cross compatible. Will a Campy 9/10 derailleur work if used on a 8 speed drivetrain? I just can't seem to find any Campy 8-speed triple long cage stuff.
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Old 08-14-15, 04:48 PM
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A couple of us here have done this sort of thing. The 10-sp bar end in alloy are basically 10-sp DT shifters (unlike Shimano's, which are backwards). The inserts looked exactly the same, and a guy near here put some 7-sp inserts in Ergo shifters and they worked fine.

I do not think the inserts will swap out, but if they do, there's a chart of the indexing rings you need somewhere on line. Maybe at Branford Bike's site, with a link or something. The first-gen 8-sp Ergo's would take about any insert, but then getting the cable pull right was a little tricky. I'd really dig some of those old 8-sp and 9-sp Ergo bikes with some nice aero brake levers and modified Syncro levers. I had an 8-sp Syncro 2 bike and it worked pretty well.

Now, if you have the shifters, and want to use them as DT shifters, you need a pair of the square-cutout "backing collars" that came with some Campy builds, which stop the DT shifters from going too far forward. Once you have those backing plates, you should be able to mount those bar end shifters just like DT shifters.

A BF member, thirdgenbird, actually did that. I sent him the plates and shifters.

As far as crossing up 8-sp and 9-sp Campy-no. 8 is 8, 9 is 9, 10 is 10. Don't ask me why. Maybe that's their trade-off for having the wide range of trim on the L Ergo.
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Old 08-14-15, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
A couple of us here have done this sort of thing. The 10-sp bar end in alloy are basically 10-sp DT shifters (unlike Shimano's, which are backwards). The inserts looked exactly the same, and a guy near here put some 7-sp inserts in Ergo shifters and they worked fine.

I do not think the inserts will swap out, but if they do, there's a chart of the indexing rings you need somewhere on line. Maybe at Branford Bike's site, with a link or something. The first-gen 8-sp Ergo's would take about any insert, but then getting the cable pull right was a little tricky. I'd really dig some of those old 8-sp and 9-sp Ergo bikes with some nice aero brake levers and modified Syncro levers. I had an 8-sp Syncro 2 bike and it worked pretty well.

Now, if you have the shifters, and want to use them as DT shifters, you need a pair of the square-cutout "backing collars" that came with some Campy builds, which stop the DT shifters from going too far forward. Once you have those backing plates, you should be able to mount those bar end shifters just like DT shifters.

A BF member, thirdgenbird, actually did that. I sent him the plates and shifters.

As far as crossing up 8-sp and 9-sp Campy-no. 8 is 8, 9 is 9, 10 is 10. Don't ask me why. Maybe that's their trade-off for having the wide range of trim on the L Ergo.
I have been reverse engineering the various Campagnolo and Shimano index systems. This started when my son was going to need index and I had a Campagnolo freehub 8 speed wheel and various Shimano mtb. index parts. I got that to work very well. After that I wanted to know in general will it be an equal amount of cable pull for each next cog on the freewheel. Used CAD for that as while it can be done mathematically, I prefer a graphic reference. To my surprise the cable pull to the next cog is equal, even as the parallogram might move fully through from positive displacement to negative.
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Old 08-15-15, 12:03 AM
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Well the real trick is since I'm going to be using a Shimano free hub, I could theoretically use a Mavic M10 cassette and figure out the custom spacers I'd need to make pretty much any combo of my index rings and campy derailleurs work. However, I wouldn't know how to regress that and I'm not looking to have a retainer with the local machinist.

So I'm really wanting a Campagnolo 8-speed triple and long cage group. Robbie you're saying that the indexing rings from the downtube/barends are or are not compatible with Campy Ergo shifters? Also I'm getting confused because you are talking about Ergo bikes with Syncro shifters. Syncro shifters are the downtube shifters for the first generation and then Syncro II. I was being funny calling these Syncro III, even though they really kind of are. Only Campagnolo never called them that. Ergo levers are the Campy versions of STI levers. I didn't know what you meant by Ergo bikes with Syncro levers.
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Old 08-15-15, 05:30 AM
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No, I didn't put it very clearly, and apologize.

1-A guy here has been swapping the Syncro and Ergo inserts in/out of Ergo's. He's "made" 7-sp Ergo's. He swears he can do the reverse, make 8-sp Syncro DT shifters by swapping in the inserts from the R 8-sp Ergo shifter. He has no need to do this, as he is always looking to go Ergo but not swap rear wheels, RD's, etc.

2-thirdgenbird converted a set of Campy 10-sp bar ends to 10-sp Campy DT shifters by mating them to the backing plates found with NR and other Campy DT shifters. At the time, I was interested in doing this, assembled the parts, and then went a different direction. I'd still be interested, so I could run 10-sp DT shifters on an all-Campy bike, non-aero brake levers; to look the part and ride the available gearing.

3-Any other mix/match, no clue. I've run 8-sp rear wheels, both Shimano and Campy, with 8-sp drivetrains, both Shimano and Campy. They are sloppy enough to interchange.

Sorry for the confusion. My wish is that Campy would simply make 10-sp DT shifters available, like Shimano does.
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Old 08-15-15, 06:17 AM
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You can make your own 10 speed index Campagnolo Down tube shifters. I've made two sets now, they work great. This is how it's done, very simple.

You need 10 speed bar end shifters.



You will only need to save the shifter part, the base, post and rubber cover are not needed.


The only other part that is needed are the shifter stop plates, these can be found on our favorite Auction site or from other "C" record era shifters. You will need the plates to have the stop at the midway point of the square cutout. Nouvo Record and Super Record have the stops at the ends of the square and are also too small.



Next install the plates on the stops with all the washers that came with the barends.



Install the shifters and the outer screw, done.



Left side the same procedure,



Here's a set on my CIOCC, they work flawless.



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Old 08-15-15, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mtnbke
I just received a set of Campagnolo 10-speed Time Trial shifters. The alloy ones not the newer carbon ones. I had read on the internet that these in fact were just updated Campy downtube shifters with a third spring that Syncro II downtube shifters never had, eliminating some of the problems those early indexing shifters had. So these would be like Campy Syncro III downtube shifters, only Campy never used them or sold them that way, just sneaking them out there as Time Trial bar-end shifters.

Lo and behold when I received them I pried off the black rubber bar end shifter cover, and they actually engraved underneath with the Campy logo, and are nice looking Campagnolo downtube shifters, just mounted on the pods and covered up with the rubber bootie.

Now I have no interest in 10-speed, as I just pulled off a Mirage 2x10 drivetrain off a bike last week and threw it in a box. However, I had heard that Campagnolo indexing rings could be swapped out. What I don't know is how this is managed if you try to cross that 2001 timeline when the cable pull ratio changed or if the indexing shift rings from the Ergo shifters will work in the bar end shifters, or if you need special bar end shifter indexing rings.

I think I'd like to go to 8-speed. I'm going to give the bar ends one more chance, even though I hate bar end shifters. I just don't have enough Kelly Take-Offs to go around for all my bikes.

Several questions:

1. Do Campy downtube shifters connect using different downtube bosses than Suntour/Shimano?

I think this is true, and my fear is that I'd have to use the Campy shifters (with a different Indexing ring to get to 7/8 maybe 9) on Bar-ends instead of my beloved Kelly Take-Offs. Or I could try to get Kelly to make me a set of Take-Offs with Campy compatible bosses.

2. Do Campy barend shifters (the TT shifters) use different swappable indexing rings than the Ergo levers?

Some other posters showed the 8-speed Mirage triple/long cage components they had. I'm having a terrible time trying to find 8-speed triple/long Campy stuff. I see what I think is 9 speed Racing T or Comp T stuff, and lots of 10 speed Chorus/Record Campy derailleurs but not anything at all in 8-speed on eBay. How scarce is this this triple/long cage Campy 8-speed stuff. I'd really prefer vintage Campy 8 speed stuff, but I'd really want something better than Mirage (which I can't even find) or Racing T branded stuff (which I can't even find). I've never had a Campy group and I'd really like it to be Chorus or Record.

3. Can I use Campy 9 or 10 speed derailleurs with an 8 speed drivetrain? Will an 8 speed chain pass through say Chorus/Record 10-speed rear derailleurs without having to use pulley spacers?

I'll be using a Zinn or IRD 200mm crank, so a Campagnolo crankset isn't a factor in my build. Which is a train wreck because the ONE component I can find a ton of for Campy triple/long 8-speed are cranks.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...onversion.html
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Old 08-15-15, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
No, I didn't put it very clearly, and apologize.

1-A guy here has been swapping the Syncro and Ergo inserts in/out of Ergo's. He's "made" 7-sp Ergo's. He swears he can do the reverse, make 8-sp Syncro DT shifters by swapping in the inserts from the R 8-sp Ergo shifter. He has no need to do this, as he is always looking to go Ergo but not swap rear wheels, RD's, etc.

2-thirdgenbird converted a set of Campy 10-sp bar ends to 10-sp Campy DT shifters by mating them to the backing plates found with NR and other Campy DT shifters. At the time, I was interested in doing this, assembled the parts, and then went a different direction. I'd still be interested, so I could run 10-sp DT shifters on an all-Campy bike, non-aero brake levers; to look the part and ride the available gearing.

3-Any other mix/match, no clue. I've run 8-sp rear wheels, both Shimano and Campy, with 8-sp drivetrains, both Shimano and Campy. They are sloppy enough to interchange.

Sorry for the confusion. My wish is that Campy would simply make 10-sp DT shifters available, like Shimano does.

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Old 08-15-15, 12:29 PM
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Awesome. Saw the other thread as well. Which leaves me with the nightmare of trying to source Campagnolo triple/long cage derailleurs. Looking on eBay I can find cranks but no derailleurs.

Who knew Campy 8-speed would be harder to find in triple/long than Superbe Pro, Sachs New Success, and Mavic SSC. I still want Record or Chorus, which I can easily do in 10-speed. However, I want a non-finicky drivetrain and 8-speed is much more dependable with the wider tolerances.

I might end up with Mirage 8sp triple/long even though I want something better, but I can't find even that!
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Old 08-15-15, 05:41 PM
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Michael Angelo, can you tell me what the little fitting on the right hand shift lever is for? I'm assuming the cable goes through it and seats in it? How do you use it? (Asking because I have a pair of these I'm hoping to use shortly). Thanks.

~
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Old 08-15-15, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Oldpeddaller
Michael Angelo, can you tell me what the little fitting on the right hand shift lever is for? I'm assuming the cable goes through it and seats in it? How do you use it? (Asking because I have a pair of these I'm hoping to use shortly). Thanks.

~
Looking at my set, its simply an in-line adjuster for the shifter cable tension. Think of it as a shifter end adjustment similar to the barrel on the derailleur. It screws in and out.

Necessary going to 9/10/11 speeds when drivetrains and index shifting became very finicky and needed to be in near perfect adjustment.
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Old 08-15-15, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Oldpeddaller
Michael Angelo, can you tell me what the little fitting on the right hand shift lever is for? I'm assuming the cable goes through it and seats in it? How do you use it? (Asking because I have a pair of these I'm hoping to use shortly). Thanks.

~

It's for fine tuning the Cable tension on the fly if needed. When I install these shifters, I grease the threads on the adjuster, then turn the adjuster so it's all the way in. I doesn't have to be tight just turned in all the way then one turn out, install the shift cable adjust tension with the turn knob on the rear derailleur.
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Old 08-15-15, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mtnbke
Awesome. Saw the other thread as well. Which leaves me with the nightmare of trying to source Campagnolo triple/long cage derailleurs. Looking on eBay I can find cranks but no derailleurs.

Who knew Campy 8-speed would be harder to find in triple/long than Superbe Pro, Sachs New Success, and Mavic SSC. I still want Record or Chorus, which I can easily do in 10-speed. However, I want a non-finicky drivetrain and 8-speed is much more dependable with the wider tolerances.

I might end up with Mirage 8sp triple/long even though I want something better, but I can't find even that!
9 speed derailleur will shift late 8 speed just fine. I've seen long cage 9 speeds more than 8 speed.
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Old 08-15-15, 06:15 PM
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"Looking at my set, its simply an in-line adjuster for the shifter cable tension. Think of it as a shifter end adjustment similar to the barrel on the derailleur. It screws in and out.

Necessary going to 9/10/11 speeds when drivetrains and index shifting became very finicky and needed to be in near perfect adjustment."

"~It's for fine tuning the Cable tension on the fly if needed. When I install these shifters, I grease the threads on the adjuster, then turn the adjuster so it's all the way in. I doesn't have to be tight just turned in all the way then one turn out, install the shift cable adjust tension with the turn knob on the rear derailleur"

Mtnbke & Michael Angelo - Thanks guys! Now I understand.
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Old 08-15-16, 02:49 PM
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8 speed Bar End shifter needd

Have a customer with fused wrist and can only shift via bar end. In need of an 8 speed Campy bar end/TT shift lever right side. Any one have anything?

Thank you in advance!
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Old 08-15-16, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by elevatecycles
Have a customer with fused wrist and can only shift via bar end. In need of an 8 speed Campy bar end/TT shift lever right side. Any one have anything?

Thank you in advance!
You'll probably have a better chance if you posted this in the Classic and Vintage Sales Forum.
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