cycleheimer

It's a hobby. I have other hobbies, and they can also get expensive (really, really expensive). Cycling is pretty low cost in comparison. Best to avoid real messes if you want to conserve your time and capital. Look for better quality bikes that are in relatively good shape. Avoid low quality bikes that are a wreck, or avoid them all together. Buy your stuff on sale, more bang for the buck. Most importantly, have fun and get out there and ride the thing.

mstateglfr 

What you are doing is building the bike up for yourself, so personal touches and picks add up.

This is different from a refurbished flip, at least for me.
On refurbished bikes that I will sell, I buy only what is needed to get the bike into solid working order and looking good.
Replacing cables plus housing costs $10 total when I buy from our collective. If I bought that stuff in bulk, it's be cheaper. It's still plenty fine quality with lined housing and stainless cables.
Replace tires only if needed and I get mildly used tires often, unless something is on sale for cheap online.
Replace bar tape with Bell brand from Walmart or online for $8 or less. Or mtb grips for $8 or less.
Rarely need to replace brake pads.
Rarely need to replace tubes or rim strips, but those are bike collective purchase if necessary.

You mention buying a new freewheel, shifters, and brake levers. That just doesn't happen for my flips. I'll only buy a flip bike if those components are in working order. Or, if they aren't the bike cost is seriously cheap to offset what I'll have to pay.

Chains are often in perfect shape once cleaned. It's rare that I buy a bike with a chain that's stretched. But it may be a product of what I search for in flips. I don't go after cosmetically brutal bikes, I go after ones that have sat in a garage for years unused. The expensive components are typically in good shape, just need some cleaning and adjusting.




As for my own bikes...they are stupidly expensive when compared to what I could sell then for.
I keep a detailed cost for each bike because I want my hobby to self fund, and I accept that I'll have to sell my keepers for less than what I have in them.
It's the same as buying a new bike and selling it a few years later.

Lenton58 

A frame-up build in Japan can be very costly. I have made very few trades, and/or purchases of "affordable" vintage parts in Japan over many years. Everything has usually extracted the full measure from my bank account.

Usually, nice, new retro parts from Nitto and DC are a better option than vintage pieces. Retailers will rip yer rectum out for a Brooks saddle on these islands — as if they were rare exotica, like illegal ivory. Buying or trading on our BF pages or eBay involves shipping, which has stratospherically escalated in the last few years.

If you are in Tokyo, there are giant bike fairs where hundreds of kiosks will be offering vintage parts. I doubt there is a plethora of great deals there. These are not like garage sales; the proprietors know exactly what the market will bear, and bartering is not a Japanese custom. There is no such thing as a "dump". I have never seen a "garage sale". Used-goods-shops rarely if ever sell bikes, and the few I have spotted were never in the least bit tempting in price. (Besides that, even my being only 5'9", most used frames here are too small for me.) I've trolled the flea markets that occur on rare occasions, but nothing interesting has ever come to my attention. The auction action is Yahoo Japan. I just stopped looking — very discouraging!

And besides that, what keeps me in check?: educating a child in Japan, as well as the prospect of an aggregate pension that will amount to chump change! Also space! Collecting more than a few bicycles here would be as eccentric as being the proverbial "cat-lady".

Someone living in Japan may contradict what I have said here and on other threads: but my experience is that building vintage is not a cheap vocation in Japan. But, compared to vintage automotive?: no comparison that is worth talking about. Still, people of much greater means restore old cars without hurting — and still educate their kids! But that is not restricted to merely the Japanese experience — of course.

On the whole, compared to skiing or golf, cycling in Japan is a great way to use your hands, brains and keep your health. But, I suspect that a majority of interested of people will be controlled in their interest by the household budget. Again, that must be true for many other parts of the planet as well, but I suspect more so than in Canada, the USA and perhaps the UK. Don't know about OZ, NZ, Malaysia and so on.

The Golden Boy 

Keeping costs in check isn't a whole lot of what I do. I get what I fancy. Sometimes I get good deals, sometimes I don't. I love trying out new things, or things that have a reputation.

When I started doing this "bike" thing, I was more into guitar gear. That stuff is expensive. I still play and play out- but I've really latched on to the guitars and basses I use.

With bike stuff, I would see other people's bikes and see how they talked about pieces- I had my Suntour AR stuff and the Deore stuff on my MTB. I've since amassed a collection of parts that I may or may not ever use... but it was fun to try it out and see what I could make them do. I like swapping components out- like RDs and shifters. Of course, that gets expensive because the shift cables get kind of beat up pinching and un pinching the cable.

I think the key is to find the stuff that you're happy with- when you have the opportunity, branch out into the things you've developed the interest in. If you're a student, you're not going to be living on broke for forever.

Best wishes!

R3tired

A spreadsheet would end my C&V life. If I knew how much I spend on old bikes i would probably stop. It's a hobby. It costs money. For similar reasons I also don't look at my bar tab.

jpaschall

Thus far it has been having different kinds of bikes to ride. I only have 3 bikes now: a sportier ride, a touring bike, and now a mountain bike/something I can lock up an not worry about. It is also a matter of developing some skill for wrenching, which is something that interests me also.

My my idea for this thread wasn't to find ways to negate costs, but rather to poll for the creative methods that you all who do this frequently employ.

3alarmer 

...just to beat the bike co-op drum one last time, at ours, we buy in bulk good Jagwire cable housing, cables, and rim tape, which we then sell at cost. I don't know what your guys do, but those are things I routinely replace on every bike I overhaul, so it's a help to me.

I use replacement brake hoods from the guys at Cane Creek (widely available from various sources online, and adaptable to many lever designs.)

Most of the tyres I end up running on road bikes are take offs from bike shops and racers that have been donated to the co-op and sold cheaply, but I also buy new tyres from Bike Tires Direct.


It's not cheap, as has been stated so eloquently by so many here already. But compared to hookers and blow, you do OK.

ksryder

Discover card the wife doesn't know about, mostly.

SquidPuppet

Personally, I don't. I can't. It's impossible. In order to achieve the desired final result, lot's of money will be spent. There is no avoiding it.

iab

I think the best thing you can do is educate yourself. Watch ebay and CL for teh stuff you think you like. See if it sells. If it does sell, for how much.

You will understand then when to buy and when to pass.

RobbieTunes

Let a crisis make your decisions for you.

jpaschall

Do you mean to consider your ability to handle a crisis once you've spent the money on something bike related?

RobbieTunes

Sure, but any number of wake-up calls, so to speak.

I could control costs per build, but then rationalized that into way too many builds.
I think many of us do that.

I changed directions, several times. All ended up escalating.

Simply, I asked myself: how often, where and when, and on what kind of terrain, will you ride until you can't ride any more?
The answer came down to a pretty limited range of riding. No need for a lot of bikes unless I decided to collect. Not me.

At the same time, I bought a bike that changed my approach, because it can do pretty much everything I need in a bike.
A re-evaluation was in order, and my bikes now match what I want to do on a bike; some overkill, but not a lot.

It made it easier to sell off frames, parts, wheels, tires, etc. I plan to go to a swap meet sometime soon and get rid of almost everything else.

Control costs? If you're busy riding a good bike, you won't have time to increase costs.

crank_addict

I'm the last for consideration being a flipper, entire bike or parts. Yet I do regard myself as more frugal. Right off, wouldn't expect to make a profit on any of the bikes.
Furthermore, I'm much more forgiving whats correct or not and make use of a part whether it matches a date of production, mix or match components and brand, etc.. Being less particular is about flexibility. Condition too has fallen from me. I appreciate the best of the best, but simply don't have any interest in acquiring. This saves me quite a sum.

My strategy-
Not always the case but I sort of follow a get lucky or good karma way. The community of vintage bike fans are fine folks and super gracious.

There's some more unusual parts I've sold but I try to be fair priced and where the buyer is comfortable. I also get some satisfaction in giving away. Especially if something was given to me or I found it for pittance. Big whippy deal. If someone can use it, that's great. Yet do have regret for losing or giving some rare items away. I try not to focus on it, admit to cowl when I see old water bottles and cages, rare bells priced way more than my bikes. I simply can't find in the budget to acquire them again.

Trading is more fun. Kind of like the old days and car meets. It wasn't much about actual cash value, you traded parts for parts, plus maybe some cash. Lucky this often is the case today for us cyclist. I say this as hugely popular. Swap meets don't really define that anymore but you can make it a swap deal in the true meaning. I still do it! If that vendor has old parts, he'll look your parts over and find a way to move them. Kind of fun.

As for high priced but more rare items, patience is key. Have your want list ready with detail spec's, dimensions, etc.. The marketplace can set whatever price they like but doesn't mean it sells. I don't think its any less insulting to kindly offer far less than the seller's high asking. Its either a yes or no deal. Move on.

Good example is a popular seller on fleabay with very tall prices. He's got the goods too but I've read some negative comments on his strategy. Only problem I have is with those with the attitude. By kindly justifying a fair price (*important* - not insulting or lowball), you may end up with the item. Nothing wrong with that, its just the way that seller prefers to present his goods. Understand, its not show and tell time, they still have a reason why its listed.... and thats to SELL.

Another way is putting the word out of your needs. Its amazing what many have but long forgotten of. I'm probably just as bad! There's some hoarders of Campy stuff thats near obscene. Not that they don't know of the value (which most do), but you might find a generous offering for some individual piece you really need. Not about buying their entire lot and then flip for a few bucks. Your call but I prefer to respect how they helped me in a part and it would be foolish to resell for far more. That friendship and little dealing is worth keeping. I like these type of folks where they make it fun in the hunt and easy on the pocketbook.

The other avenue is building a relationship with a decent bike shop. I could be selling some parts but often accumulated stuff is donated. I don't just drop it off. I'll have the shop owner or employee's first look it over. They can base their own valuation, first dibs for themselves or for the used parts bin. The reward is when the reciprocate later on. Could be the occasional use of the shop, a specialty tool, other parts, etc..

good luck and have fun

2manybikes

Control costs overall, not happening. When I have too much stuff I give it away to people who need it. Fixing up an old bike and making a true profit from it is not happening. Even if you make a real profit on one bike the other costs will offset what you made on that one bike. It will be a net loss.

But it's entertaining, even fun. It's OK.

Shp4man

jimmuller 

Bike parts are pretty inexpensive compared to everything else in life. If I had to worry about an occasional expense, even for expensive components occasionally, I shouldn't be in the vintage bike hobby at all.

Of course, that doesn't help with the original question. Donor bikes, bike coops, saved parts from previous builds, judicious search on ebay sometimes, frequent checking in the C&V For Trade/ISO or For Sale subforum, etc. It helps to target your build for performance rather than authenticity because then you don't have to shell out big bucks for that unique Campy Model 1 1971 Rear Upper Thingamabob w/chrome plating and only 2 vent holes when a dime-a-dozen Thingamabob will do nicely.

brianinc-ville

Patience is key. To build my dream commuter (for myself), I waited nearly five years to find the right frame in the right location (for $50, as it turned out). I was then able to bring in the whole bike for just under $500, with mostly new-via-ebay parts.

As for flippers: if you don't have regular access to a co-op (I don't), get yourself your own private junkyard of donor bikes. I also got lucky once -- I found a craigslist seller who had bought somebody's repo'd storage unit full of old bike parts and had no idea what she was looking at. I paid her $100 for a big stash of parts that has served me for years.

brandon98

I've pretty well failed at stopping at N+1. I have several unfinished projects in the queue. And I still don't have an all-weather bike that I actually like.

I'm in an absolute crap market for selling secondhand roadbikes. It's a hospital and govvie tech town but those folks buy new carbon fiber bikes, not vintage iron. We have a rotting urban core that considers a bike to be a mark of shame for the guy who can't get a purple 87 Caprice on 26's. Our college and med school is primarily a commuter campus from a 40 mile radius of suburban sprawl. No hipsters on fixies there. Additionally, my bikes were/are all riders for me, first and foremost and the 60-62cm frame market is VERY limited. 54-58 are much more likely to move.

Costs can be controlled if you have a good working relationship with the decisionmaker at your LBS and are frugal. My LBS owner and I both understand that he has to double his wholesale price on parts to sell at retail. 30 percent of the retail keeps the lights on and the wrenches paid and 20 percent is profit and reinvestment. I know that simply saying, "Hey X----, on your order to (insert major distributor here), please get me 25 pack of the bulk rim strops (provide PN), x number of cables (provided PN), and then ask "What can you sell it to me for and still have some meat on the bone?" can often result in a deal as good as Niagara or other mail order can provide along with better service AND spreading the money in a local community. If I am providing his kryptonite snacky food and a cold sixpack around closing time on Friday and paying cash, it's often a very fair amount.

That being said, I've purchased wrong-sized bikes solely to pillage them for parts. Often they're oompa-loompa sized road bikes that provide non-sized things like wheelsets, brakes, or shifters. I ended up with big piles of short stems and narrow bars. I gave the remains away or horsetraded them for other things.

I've decided there'll be no more bikes for a while and, in fact, I plan on having less redundant bikes. How many parallel 73ish 61cm steel roadbikes fitted with Ergo/STI shifters do I really need? How many can I ride? I keep finding myself riding 1 or 2. Like Robbietunes, a bit of soul-searching and reflective honesty can clarify the mind and clean up a cluttered garage.

holden west

Ha, I know a guy that was busted by his wife when she saw his Visa bill and how much he spent on those Warhammer figurines and games. Boy, was she mad.

Yesterday's swap meet was a disappointment. The only interesting thing was new cheap-o generic calliper brakes offered at ten dollars each. I'm sure the used parts bin at a co-op would offer better values for a flip.

bikemig 

I keep my initial costs as low as possible. My latest project is a 1990ish Specialized rockhopper which cost me $50. I blew it on the front wheel. I thought I could get the hop out of the rim. I was wrong and then found out that the front axle was toast. So I ended up getting a new inexpensive front wheel. Total costs on the bike will be right around $100. I'm giving the bike to my daughter who loves it. I don't lose much sleep on spending around $100 on a project.

I think long and hard before taking on a project that runs north of $100 though. That's my rule of thumb for keeping costs down.

lostarchitect 

I used to keep spreadsheets of costs, but it is just too hard to really keep track of.

For instance, I buy a bike for $200. Later I part it out and the BB ends up on another bike, the crankset on another one, I sell the frame for $100, etc, etc. How much did I spend on that BB? No real way to say. If the total part out netted me more than the $200 I spent on the bike, I have to assign a negative value to the BB. How much?

I just try to not go nuts with spending. That's it.

tricky 

Measuring helps you manage.

wrk101

Mistake here: "new" tools. 85% or more of my tools have been acquired USED. Every 3 to 6 months, another shop is going out of business. Then you have the occasional C/L and thrift store find. I've even found deals on used tools on eBay. On eBay I tend to buy a "LOT" or grouping of tools, and sell off one or two at a high enough price to pay for the entire LOT. I have done this several times. You just have to be able to spot a nice tool from a crappy description/picture.

Last tool lot I picked up (not the best deal ever, but still a good deal). Can you spot the Sugino bottom bracket tool set? One afternoon in the rust bath, and they were looking good:





After cleanup:

Uncle Randy

What's wrong with a spreadsheet? If he wants to sell it, he knows exactly how much he has in the bike.