Mlamp

Hi all,

I recently acquired a 1971 international. The frame was painted black by a previous owner, you can see the original copper color on the headset. Anyway, I'd like some opinions on whether or not I should have this repainted back to the original copper or the original green even. Another consideration is that there is rust spots showing on the chrome lugs, stays and fork. On the fork and chain stays the chrome is actually flaking a bit. I'd like to get the bike back to as close as original as possible.

Also, i found a company near by that can powder coat the frame for $150-$200. They can special order the metallic powder. Pictures below show my black internaional and internationals of the colors in question?

So what does everyone think?

Thank you all in advance!

jcoll003

Ooh - that's tough. I really dig that unusual green. But I also really like that copper orange. That's a tough call - they are both really nice colors. Groody brothers for the powdercoating? I've heard nothing but good things about their work - that's where my Trek is going this winter.

USAZorro

You bought that one. Glad to see someone here got it.

I am partial to the copper color. If I were going to have it painted to please myself, I'd do it in the copper. If I wanted it to be a "stealth" bike that would be less likely to draw attention (and possibly stay below the radar of bike thieves), I would consider black - with no decals.

daf1009

Since it has already been repainted, this significantly reduced the collectible value...so...all colors are options! Were it mine, I would have it repainted...as I do not like the black look on that bike. And, since I lean toward originality, I would lean to the copper...as that appears to be what the bike was...

rootboy 

If you are going to restore to its original glory…it will of course never be original again…please don't powder coat it.
Have it painted.

kroozer 

You don't have to worry about originality anymore, so paint it whatever color you like. International's are a perfect base for customizing. Chrome plating is quite expensive in the US if you're considering that route. If the chrome is bad, just paint the whole thing.

Mlamp

Thank you all for the opinions. Just to clarify, the frame has already been painted black by a previous owner. My goal is to repaint to a period correct manufacturers color. Rootboy, any links or research you can point me to so that I can educate myself on the different paint options? I want the work to be high quality and for it to at least look original. Also, does anyone know of any good painter options in the bay area?

Thanks jcoll, I'll look in to Groody brothers.

gugie 

Wet paint, Ed Litton does a lot of restorations. Rick at D&D does great work. Both are pricey, and may take several months before they return it to you. I'll let someone else come up with a powder coating options.

Mlamp

[QUOTE=gugie;18104560]Wet paint, Ed Litton does a lot of restorations. Rick at D&D does great work.

Thank you Gugie.

I was just looking at my International again. Whoever did the black paint job really did a nice job. There is gold details and trim transitioning the black to the chrome at every transition point. Each lug has a gold trim separating the chrome and black colors. The seat stays where welded to the seat tube, have a very nicely done gold tapered pin stripe clearly painted over the black. The chrome fork and rear stays also have this gold trim done. Considering this, I'm a little confused. You can also see where the black is chipped on the top tube and the copper color is showing. Is this just a high end paint job or is this the original paint?

gugie 

[QUOTE=Mlamp;18104608]Well,

Two ways of looking at this. You really like the paint job. But you see what was probably the original color under a chipped area. A professional paint would remove the paint down to bare metal. A rattle can job can be quite nice (which is what you may have), but most don't remove the paint first, and possibly just hand sanded it for better adhesion. The problem with your International is that the original paint wasn't very durable, and chips easily. Here's a picture of my 73 International. You can see chunks of paint missing from the top tube:



If you can live with the black, why not just go with that? You say it's a nice looking paint, and your opinion is the only one that matters. If it starts chipping a lot more can can always strip it down and do a proper paint job later. Did your local powder coat quote include any masking? If you're not sure if it's worth masking the chrome because of rust spotting, try removing it first. There are a lot of posts on the best way to do this, I'll let others give their opinions since I don't have a lot of experience in these matters. If you can get the chrome to (your) satisfactory condition, get masking quoted. The chrome "stockings" are typically free, they're easy to mask, but if you want to mask those fancy Nervex lugs, there will probably be an up charge.

SJX426 

@Miamp - Decisions decisions! It is time to play WRT the chrome. Let me show you before and after pics.

Before:
[IMG]P9081223, on Flickr[/IMG]

Couple of things to look for in this pic. 1. Looks like chrome is flaking off. 2. Not clear but the rust is attacking the edges of the C to the point of losing the edge. It is in truth, gone.

At the time I thought the fork should be replaced. While thinking it over and doing some investigation of cost of restoration of the fork, I went to NHBAS in Portland (several years ago) and saw that Keith Anderson had one for sale. Later I emailed him but found the steerer was too short. My investigation introduced me to OA, Oxalic Acid. I thought why not. I dipped the fork in a bucket for 24 hours and then the head tube, paint and all.
[IMG]P9191288, on Flickr[/IMG]

Mlamp

[QUOTE=SJX426;18104746]@Miamp - Decisions decisions! It is time to play WRT the chrome. Let me show you before and after pics.

Thank you all for the feedback.

That really looks incredible. I'm thinking it may be best then to try an OA bath first and then see where that takes me. Once I have a handle on the chrome situation then I can decide on the paint job. I definitely want to keep the chrome lugs in place and not paint over them, they are really an eye catcher. Even if they aren't in the best condition.

pics of the chrome in question....

Pars 

I don't think the copper color was offered on Internationals until 1974. If it had been available when I bought mine ('73), I would have gone for it instead of the chartreuse green.

Mlamp

According to the headbadge your right. According to sheldon brown though any serial number starting with an "F" is a 1971 as that was the only year for those serials. I've been pretty confused on that myself and never really got to the bottom of that. The only other thought is that this is a professional series of some sort which would also explain the black frame and copper headset..... But then again, this bike is equipped with weinman brakes and not the campi brakes that professionals come with. Maybe the brakes were swapped out at some point? Were professionals ever offered in that color scheme? I wasn't able to determine the color schemes offered with my research.

If anyone wants to help get to the bottom of that it would solve a lot of mystery for me!!

Pars 

That isn't a Professional frame. There are a lot of instances of "A" serials on '73 frames (both Professionals and RRAs), so I wouldn't put it past Raleigh on anything serial number related to occur.

EDIT: unless you are talking about something sold as a bare frame only. I'm not aware of anything back in this timeframe, but who knows with Raleigh

AZORCH

Here's my 1971 International, as found, with paint literally falling off the tubes. Although many have suggested the burgundy color might have been part of a custom order, the previous owner thought it had been repainted in the mid 70's.



My friends at Groody Brothers masked the chrome lugs and did a pretty nice job matching the original repaint, which I rather liked.



And yeah, it's powder coat. They're pretty good with it.

gugie 

I'm pretty sure the blackpaint was done later, and someone decided to keep the head tube copper. And I don't think it's really the Raleigh "copper" color, looks more like my "coffee" color. Weinmann brakes, of course, are standard.

I'm going to subscribe to this thread to see how your OA treatment works-my International is in similar condition.

gugie 

Those Groody Brothers sure do nice work!

repechage

I like my bright green metallic.

Mlamp

Azorch, did you do a metallic powder coat or non-metal? Also, I assume you gave them the completely disassembled frame correct?

Thanks SJ. So I'm going to try out the Oxalic Acid bath and thought the Campi NR pedals would be a good start to test myself at this method. I noticed after removing the pedals that the axle is not chrome plated like the exterior cage. I'm wondering if it's anodized aluminum? Can I soak these pedals in a OA bath?

Mlamp

Thank you for the response. The serial on this frame though starts with the letter "F." There is no way that I'm confusing this with a worn or faded A either. It's very distinct.

AZORCH

I went with non-metallic. Sometimes the metallics can be a little over the top and I liked this build better leaning toward the tasteful, which is in keeping with the character of an International.


Yup. I took it down completely to fork and frame. They can, of course do the same but there's an additional cost to do so. I like the process of tearing things down and building the bike back up again. In my case I used the opportunity to clean and polish components, and then to decide which was going back on. (You may have noticed I built the bike up as a three-speed drop bar roadie, which I love.)

gugie 

Seems that those vintage Raleighs can be made into just about anything-tourer, rando, commuter, 3 speed...

AngryFrankie

You stripped the paint in that third pic? Man, you seem to have done a good job. I'm big on hanging onto original paint, and that one looks like it could be cleanable. I've stripped a couple of rattle canned frames and, while it is a little work, it was worth it. Raleigh-Carlton did very nice, heavy paintjobs. It's probably got a sparkle to it also. Consider stripping it down, putting it up on your work stand, and taking your time cleaning off that black paint.

SJX426 

@Mlamp - OA will do nothing for AL. soaking the pedals will only improve any rust related issues. Note that sometimes a yellow residue will be found. Wash in baking soda and scrub.