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Fastback Seat Stays

Old 09-15-15, 02:06 PM
  #101  
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Old 09-15-15, 06:50 PM
  #102  
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Old 09-15-15, 07:11 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by tmh657
I just tried to copy a link using Safari. It would not work until I updated Flash. I was using Chrome earlier when I copied and pasted your photo. I am on a Mac as I guess you are using Safari.
Yes a Mac running Mavericks and the latest versions of both Safari and Firefox, which according to Photobucket BOTH are compatible browsers but in reality neither one is. Thanks for your help and suggestions (and to John D Thompson). I have done some poking around for online suggestions but many of the fixes are PC-speciic for PC problems and don't translate to Mac.
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Old 09-17-15, 01:01 PM
  #104  
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I like that seat post and the fillet brazing.
Originally Posted by Chrome Molly
Bike Pictures Above
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Old 09-17-15, 02:14 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by CV-6
Some 3Rensho and some of the Raleigh Pros, I think Mk II to Mk IV.

Raleigh Pro Frame 74 007 by L Travers, on Flickr
Just to add to the discussion (or is it just to be didactic?) this style of fastback with the stays "shot-in" to an area below the seat lug, often (but not always) with reinforcing to the tube, is known as a "Brampton Victor" or just "Victor" style fastback, presumedly named for the builder/model that popularized it (maybe invented it, maybe not). Mainly seen in British frames, the Holdsworth Super Mistral is a variation of the Victor style, and so's that very modern Dave Weges with Nervex-y seat lug. Fun stuff!
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Old 09-17-15, 02:58 PM
  #106  
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Parkpre MTB

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Old 09-17-15, 03:26 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by gaucho777
Parkpre MTB

Heh, I have one of those up at the cabin.
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Old 09-17-15, 03:50 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by gomango
Heh, I have one of those up at the cabin.

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Old 09-17-15, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by gaucho777
Way to cool.

I've been thinking about stripping a used mtb of its XT bits and wheelset.

Put it on the ParkPre and it would be mucho lively.
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Old 09-18-15, 05:50 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
Just to add to the discussion (or is it just to be didactic?) this style of fastback with the stays "shot-in" to an area below the seat lug, often (but not always) with reinforcing to the tube, is known as a "Brampton Victor" or just "Victor" style fastback, presumedly named for the builder/model that popularized it (maybe invented it, maybe not). Mainly seen in British frames, the Holdsworth Super Mistral is a variation of the Victor style, and so's that very modern Dave Weges with Nervex-y seat lug. Fun stuff!
As an engineer, I love didactic! (ugh) Thanks for the info. I've also seen several references "Victor fastback" on our Pros. I found references to Brampton being a British lug mfg but had no idea who/what Victor was. Anyone know who/what Victor was? This style not only looks cool but seems to be very strong structurally. Good design.
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Old 09-18-15, 07:38 AM
  #111  
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I've mentioned this before, but the seat stays on my Waterford are TIG welded. Because of comments I had received about the seat cluster treatment, I wrote to Dave Wages asking him exactly how it was done. The appearance looks like fillet brazing, but without the yellowish discoloration usually seen when polished stainless is fillet brazed.

He graciously replied:

Originally Posted by Dave Wages
Stan,

I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the bike and that it's getting so much nice attention! That one was truly a one of a kind build. I don't remember exactly why we did this; normally on the full stainless bikes, the stays are brazed on "sidetack" style and it's much simpler. What I did was fully set up the bike in the fixture and mitered the seat stays to fit against the seat lug. One of the welders then tacked the stays carefully onto the seat lug. Once they cooled down, I took the unbrazed tubes out of the fixture, the stays still tacked to the seat lug and Sean [Ketterhagen?], the welder, finished fully welding them to the lug. I then ground all the excess weld that had penetrated the lug, finished the welds, and then prepped the lug for brazing. Back to the fixture and everything gets reset, fluxed and tacked. I brazed the frame, did all the finishing, alignment and then it's off to the polisher for the final buff. So, to answer your question, the stays are TIG welded to the lug, but then all the other parts are silver brazed on your frame. If we had silver brazed the stays onto the lug, what ends up happening is the silver gets undercut during the polishing process and then it can discolor over time. Really not a nice look, and possibly not as strong either.

Yours was the only frame we used this technique on, as it's very time consuming.

Hope that answers your questions, keep riding and loving it!

Cheers,
Dave Wages
Ellis Cycles Inc.
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Home - Ellis Cycles: custom hand built bicycles & racks
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Old 09-24-15, 10:04 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
I said I'd do it, so I have: pix of the "Mystery Orange Frame" I bought on the SoCal Coast from a guy who has vanished from this Forum...he bought it in Santa Babara and thought it might be the work of Tim Neenan (Lighthouse Bicycles) but I have had no chance to confirm that let alone test it.
It has a "Fastback" seat cluster with what some have termed "bikini" (or something sexy) treatment of the seatstay tops where they merge with the seat lug. There was another LOST feature that I may have no visual record of that consisted of a brazed-in "tube" that filled the small gap between the stays and was threaded on the LH for a small-gage Allen bolt and had just a saw-kerf gap in the center that was designed to press together when the bolt was tightened...but that bolt had snapped off and the end was lodged in the "tube" where no extractor tool could reach. I had to cut it out and braze in a replacement slug that allowed a conventional metric bolt to be used...and some crappy touch-up paint.
Long story short: here's a few pix, at last:
[




GAHHH, PHOTOBUCKET IS USELESS!!!That is, unless you have access to another computer...which is the only way I got these images to copy!
UPDATE: In case anyone is following this hi-jack frame mystery (I sure am!) I sent these pix to Tim Neenan (Lighthouse Bicycles of Santa Ynez, CA) and he says this frame is NOT one he made, though it does have some of the style details he followed back when it was likely built. He said he would not have used internal cable routing and his fastback seat lug was typically a little different in the rear. Very kind of him to take the time to look and answer me, so please check out his excellent offerings if you're in the market for a custom-built frameset!
This mystery goes on...
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Old 09-25-15, 02:19 PM
  #113  
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From my Bruce Gordon Chinook that still isn't built up yet. (I know, for shame)

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Old 09-25-15, 02:35 PM
  #114  
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Also from my Trek 560.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/cJwbeJ]
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Old 09-25-15, 03:51 PM
  #115  
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Raleigh Technium..... not a great photo, as I sold the bike last spring




Also have a Trek 660, Viscount AeroSpace Pro and Trek 1400 w/ fastback stays.
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Old 08-02-17, 03:17 PM
  #116  
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Supposably Reynolds 531**********?

Has anyone seen this type of fastback seat stay?? looks like Prugnat type s seat lugs 1970's

Bike:
-Supposably Reynolds 531
-Campagnolo dropouts
-27.2 seatpost
-Prugnat type s lugs
-RGF BB shell

I've been trying to figure out what frame this is for weeks can anyone help us out?

cheers,
darker
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Old 08-02-17, 03:32 PM
  #117  
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Old 08-02-17, 07:57 PM
  #118  
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Rock Lobster




Bruce Gordon



Brent
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Old 08-03-17, 05:55 AM
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Gios.....
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Old 08-03-17, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Velognome
Sexy goes way back...... to at least 1917


uses an expanding seat post.
This design goes back to at least the turn of the century. The stay caps are integral with the lugs. The stays (and tubes) fit over smaller diameter necks to give a flush appearance. You can see thin brass rings at the joints, a couple of centimetres down the stays. Attached is a 1900 catalogue listing for a similar lug. Note the $0.26 price.

While it may have used an expanding seat post, another popular option during this era was an expanding collar that fit into the seat tube. I've included a picture of one, from the same 1900 catalogue.
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Old 08-03-17, 09:40 AM
  #121  
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Early 90s Ritchey Road bike - for sale as it happens 56 cm frame (just sayin')

[IMG]seat tube cluster by Ryan Surface, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 08-03-17, 11:18 AM
  #122  
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Good thread to revive

Ill pitch in with my freshly PC'd 1989 Trek 400:

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Old 08-03-17, 11:58 AM
  #123  
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All of my vintage (currently owned) are traditional seatstay caps to side of lug; however, when I ordered my 'new' lugged steel this is what Jon gave me. the joining of the seatstays was a nice touch taking a bit of time. The filets joining to the seattube so nicely filed&finished. Jon didn't want company as he brazed, but I saw the frame naked and was pleased.


As to why he built it this way - I should ask him.
Is this treatment a 'signature' upgrade from the builder? Design purpose? More aero? Was this a seat lug he needed to get rid of? Stiffer/stronger for my 200# body?


edit: if there is a downside, it's that the frame will only accept a 28mm tire. If I had spec'd wide tire clearance I bet the seat cluster treatment would be different.
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Old 08-03-17, 01:04 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
All of my vintage (currently owned) are traditional seatstay caps to side of lug; however, when I ordered my 'new' lugged steel this is what Jon gave me. the joining of the seatstays was a nice touch taking a bit of time. The filets joining to the seattube so nicely filed&finished. Jon didn't want company as he brazed, but I saw the frame naked and was pleased.


As to why he built it this way - I should ask him.
Is this treatment a 'signature' upgrade from the builder? Design purpose? More aero? Was this a seat lug he needed to get rid of? Stiffer/stronger for my 200# body?


edit: if there is a downside, it's that the frame will only accept a 28mm tire. If I had spec'd wide tire clearance I bet the seat cluster treatment would be different.
Gorgeous...reminds me a bit of Redcay.
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Old 08-03-17, 01:31 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake
Gorgeous...reminds me a bit of Redcay.
Not sure how many headtube lugs accommodated 1 1/8th steerers in 2003. But he modded the headtube lugs, note lack of lug 'straps' circumferentially around the headtube.

edit: add better close-up view
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Last edited by Wildwood; 08-03-17 at 01:36 PM.
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