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Holdsworth frame need help with the year and finding parts.

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Holdsworth frame need help with the year and finding parts.

Old 09-21-15, 10:44 PM
  #1  
damienle
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Holdsworth frame need help with the year and finding parts.

Hi I have a green Holdsworth Special with white decals. I was wondering if someone could tell me the year by the serial number. That being 025323 and here are the pic's.
I was wondering what campi BB would fit it as well as what size campi headset. Also any ideas on where I could find original forks? I know, asking a lot, but it never hurts to try
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Old 09-21-15, 11:46 PM
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~1980 from the serial number.

nice find! not sure about the headset etc.. mine has a tange- which was what a mistral came with in 1982 anyway. Was the special campagnolo?

Last edited by jetboy; 09-22-15 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 09-22-15, 07:02 AM
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As far as what Campy BB would fit? Any of them that are English threaded - Record, GS, Chorus, AC-H, etc. Which means you're asking the wrong question. The right question is: I'm using this Campy crankset. Which BB do I use?
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Old 09-22-15, 10:08 AM
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Headset (stack height) would also depend on the fork steerer length. But English threaded. Good luck on the fork search.
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Old 09-22-15, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jetboy View Post
~1980 from the serial number.

nice find! not sure about the headset etc.. mine has a tange- which was what a mistral came with in 1982 anyway. Was the special campagnolo?
Thanks! I've had this off and on since 1995, it was my first road bike and unfortunately my old roommate and I bought and sold it between us twice. The last time I bought it back it had been badly abused and a mere shadow of it's former self . I cant remember what the bike components were, at the moment I'm riding a early 80's racing Basso (no serial) with a Campy Track BB and would like the same for the Holdsworth.
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Old 09-22-15, 07:47 PM
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Here's the Special in the 1982 catalogue - available as a frameset only, so any build from the early 1980's will be appropriate. Your fork will need to be of 531 with Campagnolo drop outs and a 1" English threaded steerer to fit your head tube length - size your head set stack height from that. You could get a frame builder to make one. Bottom bracket will be English threaded 68mm, choose axle length to suit the chain set you select. Lovely frame by the way, glad you are reunited. I'd guess the year to be 1980 to 82. Frame sets often hung in shops for months or even years waiting for someone of the right height to buy them!

By the way, according to the table in the catalogue you are aiming for a 40 inch wheelbase, so measure forwards from the centre of rear drop out level with the wheel centre and that way you can find out the position you need the front drop outs to be in (fork offset and rake).
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Old 09-22-15, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jetboy View Post
~1980 from the serial number.

nice find! not sure about the headset etc.. mine has a tange- which was what a mistral came with in 1982 anyway. Was the special campagnolo?
Interesting - note this frame has the early, long Campy 1010 dropouts. In 1980, I believe they were pretty thin on the ground, everyone by that time having shifted over to using the short 1010B dropouts.

Doesn't look too bad - I mean, it could be lots worse. Interesting that you and your old roommate have been passing it back and forth over the years. Has some history, huh?

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Old 09-23-15, 12:16 AM
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Thank you so much for your information, it really helps out a lot!
Cheers! Oh and here's a pic of my Basso. Sorry, the original pic is right side up, not sure why it's placing it this way...
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Old 09-23-15, 12:17 AM
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Yeah, I've put thousands of miles on that thing. Lots of memories
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Old 09-23-15, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
Headset (stack height) would also depend on the fork steerer length. But English threaded. Good luck on the fork search.
Thanks for the info!
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Old 09-23-15, 10:18 AM
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Find the forks on British ebay
You could also see what Hilary Stone has.
These are likely the easiest and cheapest options.

A classic campag HS needs 38mm stack height. Measure the head tube and add at least 38mm to get the minimum steerer tube length. On a candidate fork, measure from the bottom of the crown race (or where the bottom should be) to the end of the steerer. If this is muddled, someone please correct me!

Good luck on your search & post your progress.
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Old 09-23-15, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cbutler View Post
Find the forks on British ebay
You could also see what Hilary Stone has.
These are likely the easiest and cheapest options.

A classic campag HS needs 38mm stack height. Measure the head tube and add at least 38mm to get the minimum steerer tube length. On a candidate fork, measure from the bottom of the crown race (or where the bottom should be) to the end of the steerer. If this is muddled, someone please correct me!

Good luck on your search & post your progress.
Ok, thanks I'll check those sources out. I have a feeling that it's going to be a challenge finding original forks. Your post wasn't muddled I understood the measurement instructions and I'll post pics as the bike progresses!
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Old 09-23-15, 07:11 PM
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I wonder if planet X would sell you a fork from the neo-retro Holdsworth frames they offer. sold as framesets, but they might sell a fork...
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Old 09-23-15, 07:35 PM
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Actually I think the stack ht. of Campy NR is more than 38mm, going from (bad) memory I recall more like 43mm, but that's probably the HS this frame/fork would have been "cut" for. You can always add a spacer, up to a point, if the steerer is "close" but slightly too tall, or cut down with a saw guide (very important rather than free-handing that cut) and touch-up the top thread with a file. Measure 3 times, cut once! You can't add that metal back without a torch and money!
per the long Campy DOs on an early '80s frame: Holdsworthy was definitely bucking some of the style trends at this point, as were some other British builders, and were not so quick to adopt the latest (shorty DOs and the under-BB cable routing, flashy chrome, etc.) trend that was sweeping Italy. Their one concession was the head tube decal replacing the badge, but "Classic" roadbike was the selling point...plus given that Holdsworthy was the UK Campagnolo Importer they probably had massive stocks of frame bits on hand to work through.
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Old 09-23-15, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jetboy View Post
I wonder if planet X would sell you a fork from the neo-retro Holdsworth frames they offer. sold as framesets, but they might sell a fork...
I'll check them out, Thanks!
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Old 09-23-15, 07:54 PM
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Yeah, it hurts to cut too short on anything. I always triple check on measurements.
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Old 09-23-15, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by damienle View Post
I'll check them out, Thanks!
i'd see if they have any b-stock that got chipped or otherwise cosmetically damaged - since you don't need perfection. who knows, they might be happy to help you out. I'd actually be interested to know how such an interaction would go as I am trying to save money to buy a frameset from them: and if they do a solid for a vintage brother, i'd be that much more incentivized to send them my money.

Last edited by jetboy; 09-23-15 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 09-23-15, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jetboy View Post
i'd see if they have any b-stock that got chipped or damaged - since you don't need perfection. who knows, they might be happy to help you out. I'd actually be interested to know how such an interaction would go as I am trying to save money to buy a frameset from them: and if they do a solid for a vintage guy, is be that much more incentivized to send them my money.
I just emailed them, I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 09-23-15, 10:20 PM
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Just looked up specs in Sutherlands and the NR they list as 39.1, a Super record as 42.2 and later models like Croce D'Aune as 41.2 and C-Record Road as 42.2.
Originally Posted by cbutler View Post
Find the forks on British ebay
You could also see what Hilary Stone has.
These are likely the easiest and cheapest options.

A classic campag HS needs 38mm stack height. Measure the head tube and add at least 38mm to get the minimum steerer tube length. On a candidate fork, measure from the bottom of the crown race (or where the bottom should be) to the end of the steerer. If this is muddled, someone please correct me!

Good luck on your search & post your progress.
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Old 09-24-15, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
Just looked up specs in Sutherlands and the NR they list as 39.1, a Super record as 42.2 and later models like Croce D'Aune as 41.2 and C-Record Road as 42.2.
I've used Sutherlands since the first edition. It's a nice guideline but we could never figure out how they came up with their published specs for a lot of components?

The stack height for Campy 1039 Record headsets sold after 1967 or 1968 is ~41mm depending on the spacers under the top lock nut. There's a lot of minor variances due to loose manufacturing tolerances.


For everyone's education and edification:Campagnolo never sold Nuovo Record headsets. The Record model came with the Nuovo Record gruppo.

The first Campy headsets appeared in their catalog 14 from 1960. There was no brand name embossed into the top and bottom cups and the top lock nuts were rather cobby! The road headsets (Strada) were part number 1039 and had ~39mm stack height. Track (Pista) 1040 headsets had ~33mm - 34mm stack height.



Catalog 15 from 1967 shows the Campagnolo logos embossed into the cups. The stack height was probably ~41mm.



Catalog 16 - 1968, Catalog 16 Supplement - 1971, Catalog Special - 1974, Catalog 17a - 1975, Catalog 18 - 1984




Easy way to check the stack height capacity of a fork and frame:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...57625424641013

Descriptions are under the pictures...




@damienle measure the height of the head tube then add the stack height for the headset that you want to use plus a millimeter or two and you can figure the steerer length you'll need for a replacement fork.


Try to find a fork with approximately the same length of blades as the original. The forks on both of my 1973 Holdsworths have blades that are ~14.5" from the center of the dropouts to the bottom of the headset crown race. These take 700s wheels or sewups. Fork rake should be ~40mm to 50mm.



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Last edited by verktyg; 09-24-15 at 03:57 AM.
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