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-   -   Shipping Liability on Ebay (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1032010-shipping-liability-ebay.html)

justaguy168 09-26-15 10:17 AM

Shipping Liability on Ebay
 
I am preparing to sell 2 vintage bicycles on Ebay and I live in NYC. Those who are interested can see my other posts for a complete description. How can I best insure these items against damage or loss in shipment? One bicycle I was going to sell Buy-It-Now only and the other I was going to have an auction with a minimum.

Other questions:
  1. Are loss or damage claims the buyer's responsibility or the sellers?
  2. Should I restrict to continental US? Isn't shipping overseas prohibitive?
  3. Do I have to pack it up measure and weigh it before I sell it?
  4. What can I do to avoid Ebay scamming specifically related to shipping? I.e. seller claims not received. I've read the post Any new tricks/tactics on eBay
While the general consensus is that FedEx is more reliable than UPS or USPS, neither shipper has escaped scathing criticism on these boards. In particular, UPS seems to have a rule that items must be surrounded with 2 inches of padding on all sides. Since very few people do that, it means that UPS effectively doesn't have insurance. Furthermore a number of posts go on to say how when loss or damage claims have been filed they have been stalled to the point of giving up. A shipsurance thread on Etsy appears to show something similar.

Unfortunately the best insurance seems to be to really pack it well. I have experience with taking apart bicycles for shipping. I will follow Miamijim's sage advice in his Bike Packing 101 post. While I don't think I'm going to start building a wood crate, I have thought about it. I do plan on putting wood/pvc pipe spacers in the corners, in the center, and by the rear derailleur. I also plan to try to get those mushroom caps for the axles and a block for the fork.

Thanks in advance.

CliffordK 09-26-15 10:42 AM

Some bike shops apparently will pack for shipping. I'm not sure who carries the liability for their shipping though.

I haven't shipped any bikes, but I've received various bikes and components.

I wouldn't build a wooden crate. People have been shipping bikes in cardboard boxes for eons.

It only takes a few seconds to remove the rear derailleur. Much better than having it hanging down.

Bubble wrap & foam is your friend. Also consider pipe insulation. Wrap EVERYTHING. When I've bought well packed frames, I've been happy that the fork was tie wrapped to the frame... Best to minimize loose parts bouncing around the box. You probably don't want to remove the fork, but I'd control the interaction between wheels and other parts.

I wouldn't add support to the corners of the box. They should be stiff enough. But, most frames and forks I have bought came with some kind of support between the front and rear dropouts of the bike.

dailycommute 09-26-15 12:57 PM

I would find a good bike shop and have them pack it for you, then use bikeflights and purchase insurance with them for the sale value rounded up to closest hundred. If any damage refund buyer, then file a claim with bikeflights and have documented proof the LBS packed it. Also make sure you offer the bike with returns accepted as the standard ebay policy is buyer pays return pack/ship so avoid any buyer partial extortion attempts.

miamijim 09-26-15 06:35 PM


Originally Posted by justaguy168 (Post 18195910)
I am preparing to sell 2 vintage bicycles on Ebay and I live in NYC. Those who are interested can see my other posts for a complete description. How can I best insure these items against damage or loss in shipment? One bicycle I was going to sell Buy-It-Now only and the other I was going to have an auction with a minimum.

Other questions:
  1. Are loss or damage claims the buyer's responsibility or the sellers?
  2. Should I restrict to continental US? Isn't shipping overseas prohibitive?
  3. Do I have to pack it up measure and weigh it before I sell it?
  4. What can I do to avoid Ebay scamming specifically related to shipping? I.e. seller claims not received. I've read the post Any new tricks/tactics on eBay
While the general consensus is that FedEx is more reliable than UPS or USPS, neither shipper has escaped scathing criticism on these boards. In particular, UPS seems to have a rule that items must be surrounded with 2 inches of padding on all sides. Since very few people do that, it means that UPS effectively doesn't have insurance. Furthermore a number of posts go on to say how when loss or damage claims have been filed they have been stalled to the point of giving up. A shipsurance thread on Etsy appears to show something similar.

Unfortunately the best insurance seems to be to really pack it well. I have experience with taking apart bicycles for shipping. I will follow Miamijim's sage advice in his Bike Packing 101 post. While I don't think I'm going to start building a wood crate, I have thought about it. I do plan on putting wood/pvc pipe spacers in the corners, in the center, and by the rear derailleur. I also plan to try to get those mushroom caps for the axles and a block for the fork.

Thanks in advance.

1. Loss claims are the sellers responsibility
2. Continental U.S. Only.
3. Buy Now only with $85 added in to cover shipping.
4. Do NOT have to weigh and measure. $85 will cover anything except for tandems and old tanks.
5. Ship FedEx through Ebay and select 'direct signature'.

If this is your first experience shipping a bike I'd highly recommend getting a Trek Madone 'clamshell' box. Measure the box first, Length plus girth 130" or less. Some boxes are over some are under. A clamshell box makes packaging much, much easier for the novice just make sure all the special packaging materials are in the box. Watch YouTube videos on how bikes are packaged in Madone boxes and you should be able to do it yourself.

If a bike is fully insured and 'not delivered' it's on FedEx unless there's a signature...I had an Ebay bike disappear off the FedEx truck and was fully reimbursed. If it's signed for with a direct signature then it's on the buyer.

I ad a simple declaimer to all my bike/frame sales. "This is a used bicycle. Therefore it is only reasonable to expect a wide variety of imperfections such as scratches, nicks and other imperfections. The pictures provided very clearly depict the overall condition." Ebay only allows 12 pics to be uploaded, upload 12 and make sure they're at least 5mp each. Take no less than 25 pictures and host them on your favorite site, I use photobucket, and add a link to the pics in your ad in larger font.

CLICK FOR ADDITIONAL PICS: XXXXXXXXXXXX

CliffordK 09-26-15 06:38 PM

Just for curiosity, have you tried to sell locally?

NYC/New Jersey is the biggest metro area in the USA, with nearly 1/15 of all Americans. I'd have to imagine that you might find a local buyer.

Obvioiusly the C&V market can be a bit fickle, but at least it is worth a try.

If you save $100 on shipping, you might get a good deal for both the buyer and seller.

justaguy168 09-26-15 11:44 PM

Many thanks MiamiJim. Good points CliffordK.

miamijim 09-27-15 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by CliffordK (Post 18196827)
Just for curiosity, have you tried to sell locally?

NYC/New Jersey is the biggest metro area in the USA, with nearly 1/15 of all Americans. I'd have to imagine that you might find a local buyer.

Obvioiusly the C&V market can be a bit fickle, but at least it is worth a try.

If you save $100 on shipping, you might get a good deal for both the buyer and seller.

As an example....

$800 'Buy Now' on Ebay = ~$630 in your pocket (10% fees $80 shipping). Advertise on CL for $675 and take $625.

When I sell on Ebay I work backwards. I decide how much I want in my pocket and then add shipping and fees to that number. If I want to walk with $1000 I'll add $80 for shipping then add $150 for fees to come up with a 'Buy Now' of ~$1250

oddjob2 09-27-15 06:10 AM


Originally Posted by CliffordK (Post 18196827)
Just for curiosity, have you tried to sell locally?

NYC/New Jersey is the biggest metro area in the USA, with nearly 1/15 of all Americans. I'd have to imagine that you might find a local buyer.

Obvioiusly the C&V market can be a bit fickle, but at least it is worth a try.

If you save $100 on shipping, you might get a good deal for both the buyer and seller.

That's what I thought too, but NYC is kind of soft these days IMHO. From Michigan, here is my experience via eBay:

I've sold an XL Fuji Ace to a NYC individual around the corner from Noglider.

An XL Serotta went to Iowa.

Everything else, including Moto GR, Treks, PX10, Raleigh SC Mk II end up heading for California.

gioscinelli 09-27-15 06:26 AM

If shipping a bike or frame CONUSA through Fedex, or International, take pictures of packing progress as documentation. Shipping International use Ebay's shipping insurance with all international sales, USPS Express Priority (provides tracking and signature) to the end. I don't "flip" to make lot's of money, just a few shekels to support my addiction and collection.

iab 09-27-15 06:31 AM


Originally Posted by miamijim (Post 18196823)
3. Buy Now only with $85 added in to cover shipping.
4. Do NOT have to weigh and measure. $85 will cover anything except for tandems and old tanks.

How much insurance does the $85 carry?

dailycommute 09-27-15 07:08 AM

Any insurance whether ebay, bikeflights, etc is purchased separately and generally is in 100s increments (usually around 2.00 per hundred). Ebay has a more convoluted scale as value goes up. 85 is avg cost to ship ebay though certainly closer makes a little cash, further may cost, remember 13% ebay/paypal fees will be charged on shipping as the house always gets their cut. I tend to offer free shipping on ebay and bake into price or flat 85 charge.

Originally Posted by iab (Post 18197640)
How much insurance does the $85 carry?


miamijim 09-27-15 10:35 AM


Originally Posted by iab (Post 18197640)
How much insurance does the $85 carry?

You make a good point...the first $100 is free, after that its .95 per $100 with a ~$3 minimum. Insurance on a $1000 bike would run ~$11. I work everything into the 'Buy Now' price.

justaguy168 09-27-15 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by miamijim (Post 18196823)
3. Buy Now only with $85 added in to cover shipping.

Would you just add $85 into the E-bay sales price or have a separate shipping price? I think the E-bay fee would be lower if it was in the shipping price. But it might be more transparent to buyer if it was lumped into the sales price.

big chainring 09-27-15 12:24 PM

Packing a bike in a box is just a lot of common sense. Wrap, box, protect like you would any other packaged item you send in the mail.

Go to a local bije shop and ask to see a new bike unpacked from a box. You will get some ideas, and maybe get the packing material you need as well.

I have recieved a few bikes sent to me from ebay buys. Most came with minimal packaging. One came from Poland as simply a frame in a box. They all survived.

miamijim 09-27-15 06:02 PM


Originally Posted by justaguy168 (Post 18198220)
Would you just add $85 into the E-bay sales price or have a separate shipping price? I think the E-bay fee would be lower if it was in the shipping price. But it might be more transparent to buyer if it was lumped into the sales price.

I roll everything into the 'Buy Now' price. When you enter $0 into the shipping price box a nice 'Free Shipping' icon appears in your ad. Free shipping also guarantees you a 5 star DSR (dealer seller rating) for that category. Also, NEVER send communication to your buyer unless absolutely necessary. No communication also guarantees a 5 star DSR for that category.

I'm in Tampa, if I ship a bike to someone in Orlando or Miami I may give a shipping refund for the difference if its excessive. For instance, I always calculate $85 for shipping, if it comes to $40 I may refund $30-40 after positive feedback is received.

justaguy168 09-27-15 07:49 PM

Miamijim, That's exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks.


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