Uni vs Hyper
 

I have a set of Fir EL19 wheels with Shimano 105 Uniglide 6-speed hubs that I intend to use with one of my Arabesque groups. After the highly contended feedback on the shift quality (or lack thereof) of the Arabesque derailleur, I am interested in opinions on how much shift quality improves with using a hyperglide cassette instead of a uniglide cassette.

To further complicate this, I think my uniglide freehub is one where a hyperglide cassette won't work. I've included a picture showing the splines are all the same size. Does this mean uniglide is my only option with this freehub body? Interestingly, it has a Suntour cassette on at present which I don't know even takes advantage of the Shimano design. Is the "glide" feature part of the cassette design?

Now I've seen the videos on changing the freehub body and modifying a hyperglide body to work on this hub. It's a fair amount of effort and more expense than I had hoped for so I'm really trying to gauge just how noticeable the difference would be in the Arabesque shifting. Anyone have any first hand experience with this?

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/a...psjjwjmo00.jpg

I didn't know a Suntour cassette would fit on a Shimano hub... does it actually work?

To answer your questions:
1. Yes, Hyperglide does work better. UniG shift smoothness rates right between HyperG and old-fashioned straight tooth cogs.
2. I would go to a modern HyperG cassette for sure, they're more widely available and less expensive than tracking down an old UniG model, especially so when you consider that:
3. Hyperglide-type Shimano freehub bodies have been standard for over two decades now and are extremely commonplace. You can get one for cheap or possibly free, just visit a local bike shop and ask for a trashed rear wheel with a taco'ed rim from their pile-o-scrap, then transplant the perfectly good freehub body off that wheel onto yours.

I'm not seeing a Suntour cassette in that photo, I see a 6s Uniglide cassette from model year 1987.

I prefer Uniglide over Hyperglide when using friction shifters, since the un-ramped Uniglide cogs give audible notice before the chain is positioned close enough to an adjacent larger cog so as to possibly shift on it's own, unexpectedly, as might result from frame flex or from an even slightly-bent chain link.

If you still have an old chain on the bike, then a modern 8s chain (or as narrow as 9 speed width) will improve (friction or indexed) shifting greatly on any of the 6 or 7 speed Hyperglide or Uniglide cassettes.

If you do have a Suntour cassette that fits on the pictured freehub body, then it is one of the rare Plug'N-Play models from the brief period just before Suntour's demise. They were offering Shimano-compatible cassettes for perhaps one year, and I have to admit I can't remember ever having seen one except perhaps at the dealer conventions of 1994.

The cassette isn't going to improve the shifting noticeably, compared to using a slant-parallelogram derailleur. Ditch the Arabesque for something in the current paradigm. Then make sure it has a Centeron tech floating top pulley. Those two things matter infinitely more than Cog profile between IG and HG.

You should be able to get the freehub new for under $25 and a 7-speed cassette new for maybe $25, depending. And it's about a 20 minute job. While you're at it, you can replace the rear hub bearings and adjust the hub... Just a thought.

Freehub bodies can be scavenged from donor hubs and the swap is relatively easy. 7s HG freehubs are available. You can also build a hybrid cassette using hyperglide cogs with wide tab ground narrow and only using a UG cog for the outer most postion.

And yes, HG cogs shift much better.

@dddd: You are likely correct on the cassette. The seller claimed it was a Suntour cassette and I have not removed and inspected. I like your point on the friction shifting differences and I will be using a new 8 speed chain. I will probably keep the Uniglide freehub based on your feedback.


@lasauge and @Phil_gretz and [MENTION=6981]miamijim[/MENTION]: I have not removed the freehub yet but I am pretty certain the 105 hub is an early one that is not compatible with a hyperglide freehub body. I found this video of what this type of conversion entails and I'm not sure I want to get into freehub ball bearings, pawls, cone and dust cap differences etc. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and find out I can slide a hyperglide freehub right on, in which case I may take your advice. Thanks for the help either way!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaBQHCU9TDw

I'll check the video later, no youtube at work, but I'm almost certain your hub is compatible. There is no messing around with pawls and springs and bearings. For the most part its a straightforward swap.

I'm pretty sure I can see the attachment bolt's splines in that picture...

I finally removed the cassette and freehub body and it would appear in the photo below that I have one of the early Uniglide configurations. My understanding is that a Hyperglide freehub body will not slide onto this style of hub. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?

The video link I posted earlier shows how to take a part a uniglide and hyperglide freehub to make a frakenglide hub that works. Pretty big job with dozens of ball bearings and pawls involved.

Unless I learn something new, I'm going to soak my uniglide freehub for a while and see if I can salvage it.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/a...psivxohroz.jpg

Take another picture, rotated 90 degrees so we can see the rest of the hub. From this angle at least, it looks like a perfect candidate for an HG freehub body.


To add: You had to undo a hollow bolt with a 10mm allen wrench to remove the freehub body, right? It's the lack of that bolt attachment, plus this protuberance beyond the splined section on the hub, that makes early Uniglide hubs hard to convert to HG:

http://sheldonbrown.com/images/uniglide-oldhub.jpg

More here: Shimano Cassettes & Freehubs

I think your good to go...

St Sheldon has it all. And in a pinch, you can just grind the wide tab on HG sprockets down to fit on UG hubs. Takes some time with a dremel Tool and a file, but not rocket science. I've done that a couple of times. I kind of like UG because most people think it's junk and toss it - but it can be gold! As mentioned above, save a threaded 1st position sprocket. If you need a different one, loose screws often has threaded UG cogs.

You just made my day! Yes I had to use the 10mm allen wrench and no my hub does not have this protuberance. So now I'm looking at Hyperglide freebhubs and of course have new questions.

-Looks like a 7 speed Shimano hyperglide freehub is the closest thing available to what I have. Can I use this to replace the 6 speed uniglide freehub without changing axle length and wheel dish?

-Can my 6 speed 600 Arabesque shifter and derailleur work okay with a 7 speed cassette?

Thanks for all the help.

6 and 7 speed freehubs both ran on 126mm OLD hubs.

Shifter should work, just get the high/low limit screws set properly. I've upgraded three bikes from 6 to 7s and now one of them is running 8s and could go all the way to 10s if I desired.

Perfect. Time to go shopping! Thanks

Agreed. Installing a Hyperglide body should be easy. I've run into differences among Hyperglide bodies, but it seems to be between "road" and "MTB" hubs. If you scavenge a Hyperglide body, get one from a road hub to match your old 105 hub shell.

The new ones are labelled STX-RC or Acera, $15-20. :thumb:

You almost always need more than just the freehub body to make this HG conversion!

All of the axle components on the driveside end of the axle, plus the sealing ring that fits/presses inside of the threaded snout on the HG body, are needed as a complete set to assure assembled "stack height" correctness and proper sealing.

Get all of the parts together, from another hub, and keep them together! Do not attempt to remove the sealing flanged ring inside of the freehub body/bodies, as they are difficult to set in straight and easy to damage!

But note that there are several different standards for the mating of a Shimano freehub body to the hubshell. These all seem to have identical splines, but the stacked height (thus distance from spokes) can be very different, which (just as before, with the axle) can also cause insurmountable sealing and operating-clearance issues!

You have been warned!

I had a hunch it might not be such an easy swap. The STX-RC MC32 recommended by [MENTION=251447]ThermionicScott[/MENTION] looks like it would go right onto my hub but as you point out, the stack height is probably different given it's a 7 speed freehub.

The good news is I took my 6 speed uniglide freehub apart today and rebuilt it. 50 ball bearings later and some creative spacer rigging, I've got it spinning like new. Not a bad job at all and it makes me wonder how many freehubs have been thrown out when all they needed was cleaning or a new spacer.

I may try one of these new ones anyway. They're cheap enough and if it does transfer over, would let me upgrade to 7 speeds.

Since my question didn't get answered in the other thread, I'll try again here...:

Hey freehub experts!..., Will such a cassette fit my UG freehub properly, once I file the wide tooth down?
Or, as I'm gathering in this thread, the HG small ring will not thread on to the UG body?

You will need to use a UG 1st position threaded sprocket as the lockring. Or find a NOS/good condition one from Loose Screws.

+1 to [MENTION=131041]mountaindave[/MENTION] response. In my research of this whole UG vs HG thing, I came across this on Sheldon Brown's site:

Alternatively, you can fit Hyperglide sprockets onto a Uniglide body by grinding or filing off the one wide spline. You'll still need a threaded Uniglide sprocket for the top-gear position. Supplies of these are getting scanty, though it is possible to grind a worn sprocket so it will work with a new chain, or use a 3/32" track sprocket -- the threading is the same, though you may have to grind down the flange or install the sprocket backward and use a spacer.

Thanks for the confirmation.
So, for my scheme to work, I will need a 12 T (or 11T) UG small ring. Do these exist?
No point having two 13T cogs on the same cassette! :wtf:

Now your just getting greedy! This might interest you:

https://www.loosescrews.com/blog/the...-cassette-cog/