cbutler

If you slavishly restore the frame & parts, you'll have a poorly performing heirloom that you won't ride. Steel cottered cranks and 27 x1.25" wheels are miserable.

I'd have a good framebuilder inspect the frame for issues that need to be repaired and then braze-on: TT cable guides, shift lever bosses, BB cable guides, and RD cable stop. Get the appropriate Mal Rees, Reynolds and "Made in England" decals, and choose a colour scheme that compliments the decals. Black is forbidden. Black says you have no imagination.

If you are in the UK consider Argos in Bristol, Bob Jackson in Leeds or Mario Vaz in London.

Paint, Decals & renovation approx 200-300 Pounds.

Find a used mid 80's bike in Very-Good to Excellent shape that carries a Shimano 6207 grouppo and buy it. Transfer the parts and wheels (700c of course) over to the Rees and sell the frame on. A Bianchi, Miyata and many other makes had models that carried this grouppo. A mid 80's Bianchi can be had for about 250 Pounds minus 100 Pounds selling the frame, so a total of about 150 Pounds. You'll inevitably need about 100 Pounds for cables, tape, brake lever hoods etc.

Reno 300
Donor 150
Misc 100
Total 550 Pounds for an updated heirloom, that you will love riding and so will your children.

Lenton58 

Forty years ago i must have been very miserable. Fortunately, I didn't notice.

I think that stuff would depend exactly on what the OP wants to do with it. The priorities in regards to the frame-builder are in the geometry, facing the BB and head tube with some attention to the stays and drop-outs. Of course I realize you are directing him to a predetermined objective.

My Vitus 979 is black. The former owner raced it in triathlons before there were specialized bikes for the sport. So, he had no imagination — just enough to get him inspired to train all year and compete all over the planet until a bad crash stopped his career. My having no imagination must have led me to buy this same machine. What was I thinking of?

Good call. Argos is perhaps the only refinisher left that does stove enamel. I built up an Argos finished frame for a friend. It is stunning! Caution ... if there is rust pitting, their policy is to leave it (of course ridding and neutralizing any oxidation). They do not believe in defiling the frame with "filling". But, that is not to say they might obey the customer's directive to the contrary

I agree that is one approach. I've done somewhat the equivalent myself due to cost and blah blah ... obvious other stuffs. If the OP wants to restore it to as close to original as possible, it need not be "slavish" if his heart is in it. Restorations are not usually done by slaves. They are done by enthusiasts or what we here in Japan refer to as maniaku [maniacs] — the ultimate connoisseur, the sort of people who restore ancient airplanes and railroad locomotives. Of course you are free to think they are foolish if you wish. But another view is that such people feel and see romance and beauty in some mechanical creations the same way other people see things in art. Such choosing is really more a predilection than a chosen option. So far, I am getting the message that the OP is not inclined to be a restorer. OK by me as long as he does not saw the frame up to make a bike stand.

If the bike were mine, it would be the only one in my small fleet that I might slave over to make an actual restoration — simply because I do not have a bike of this vintage and with its providence. It is a relic of a former time. Some members seriously ride such creations and love them. They are not competing in competitions — duh! This bike belongs to the post-war era of the "clubman" bicycle. It falls into a niche of nostalgia. You either get it or you don't. If the OP doesn't feel it — so be it. Compared to imminent nuclear war, climate change, brain damaged starving children, widespread conflicts displacing millions, the outcome here is trivial.

cbutler

I got yer goat!
I think all bikes are fun and worthy.
I offered a very prejudiced view that anyone could take or leave.
I absolutely adore slavish restorations. However, spice is nice.

cbutler

Sooo... How's it going? Have you bought anything for the Rees? Chosen a colour scheme? Please post pics when you can.

netto99

Hi

To be honest its not going anywhere )). I've been busy lately, so the frame is just lying in the shed, not sawed up for a bike stand (although that is a curious idea). Another thing is that there are too many options. Getting a donor bike with Shimano 600 sounds more affordable than new-retro parts (which have totaled out to ~£700). But! What about rear spacing? I would guess 70s-80s bikes would have 126mm already. Brake reach for 700c wheels on 27' frame. And all other compatibility problems. Plus used mid 80's bike in Very-Good to Excellent shape that carries a Shimano 6207 and costs £250 is quite a rarity in itself (according to my ebay/gumtree searches).

And on top of that the more I think about it the more I become convinced that frame has to be at least serviced professionally.

Going for new retro parts is quickest and simplest approach, but if I think about it Lenton58 is right, I could just get a new steel frame and the parts which would suit it thematically and chronologically.

Getting parts from 60s would be the most right decision, but not very easy, probably would take forever and cost just as much. Also some parts that were on the frame are dated to later periods themselves.

Using parts from mid 80s is like not taking a firm stance on either new-retro or 60s-retro.

In the end I just want the frame to tell me what to do :/

P.S. I like the original maroon a lot.

rhm

Oh, that's just silly
I'd take a good quality cottered crank over a cheap cotterless one any day. The problem is that they made cheap cottered cranks for many years after they stopped making good ones, and the cheap ones were always more common. Don't let the cheap ones make you think it's a bad design; the good ones are very nice indeed.

As for 27" rims, the problem is that no one makes good tires for older 27" rims. Without good tires, the rims are useless. So yes, I vote for 700c rims. But only because of availability.

cbutler

Hi netto99,

Restoring a bike, or even harvesting the parts from a donor bike IS a big job. The following is just a suggestion;
1) Have a framebuilder inspect and fix any issues; facing BB, alignment & so on 50 Pounds
2) Spray the frame & fork yourself; materials (no Decals) about 50 pounds
3) Buy a good to excellent condition Peugeot UO8 about 110 Pounds
4) Transfer the parts to the Rees
5) Sell The peugeot frame minus 30 Pounds
6) Cloth tape, Cables, toe clips little parts about 60 Pounds

Total: 240 Pounds.

People on this forum can step you through each of the above steps.

The main benefit to slaughtering a Peugeot(aside from ridding the world of a UO8), is that all the parts from a '70's era UO8 are '50's-60's vintage. They won't be hyper-correct, but certainly good enough to fool most collectors. You also by-pass a lot of difficult issues; The UO8's 27x1.25" wheels will fit, the peugeot's 120mm rear spacing matches the Rees, the Mafac brakes will fit, The Simplex Prestige gears will fit, chain, pedals, cranks will all fit.

You'll need to buy a seat-post and stem to fit the Rees, perhaps a headset also.

You can ride the bike and determine what you like and make changes that are meaningful to you.

I'm a cranky, opinionated old fart, but happily I'm not wedded to any of my opinions and I don't want to impose them on anyone.
John

cbutler

OP is new to C&V. Recommending a period-correct restoration is sadistic. It would be simple and fun for you or I but, not for a newbie. Identifying and sourcing parts is a lengthy and expensive process even with the help of this forum. You obviously have extremely deep knowledge of parts, long experience as a mechanic and probably a well developed aesthetic sense, please realize that OP does not have these advantages. Thus I recommended avoiding a slavish restoration.

Steel cottered cranks have their place - period correct restos. I didn't say that OP should use a cheap cottered crankset, but a Shimano 6207. The advantages are many; price, weight, chainrings, availability, sealed BB. Conservatively, changing from a cottered crank to quality cotterless is a 400g weight saving.

27x1.25" wheels with alloy rims are about 1500g heavier than 700c (same hubs, spokes, no tires). The performance boost from going from 27" to 700c is astounding. The tire and rim options in 700c are wonderful.

So, in this context, I stand by the truism that cottered cranks and 27" wheels are miserable. Is that silly?







So,

rhm

That's pretty extreme. You make it sound like the old stuff is no good, rare, expensive, etc. And indeed it can be all of that. But the same can be said for new. I'd recommend he do what he wants. If new is what he wants, fine; but period correct parts may be an affordable and attractive option if that's what he wants.

Aside from that, this is a C&V forum. He came here asking for C&V advice. He can ignore it if he wishes, but giving him correct C&V advice is not sadistic. okay, but what you said before is that they are miserable. The fact is there are many miserable cranks, some of them steel, some of them aluminum, some of then cottered, some of them cotterless. It's one thing to recommend he avoid miserable old junk, quite another to say all cottered cranks are miserable.
Yes. There's no way the weight difference between a pair of 700c rims (such as Sun CR18) and a pair of 27"rims (such as Sun CR18) amounts to 150g, let alone 1500g. There are good reasons to recommend 700c over 27" but there's no need to exaggerate.

cbutler

Take me out of context and I sound like Satan. When read in context, I make sense.

I presume you feel insulted about my statements on old bikes. I love old bikes. Some should be babied, others ridden hard and a few are so far-gone they need to be tossed into a blast-furnace. Sometimes a full-on resto is a good thing, other times it's just foolish, since everyone's time, money and enthusiasm is limited. Decisions about restoration should be on a case-by-case basis. Not all cycles merit a resto, my 62 Claud Butler is an example, but, that's a story for another day.

I think I've handled one, maybe two TOTL cottered cranks, I remember being impressed with the design, workmanship, plating and lightish weight. TOTL cottered cranks are very, very nice. When cottered cranks are bad, they are really bad.

I did awkwardly and confusingly describe my aversion to 27" wheels. I just went down to the workshop and weighed some wheelsets.

Year Rim Tire Spokes Hub FW Weight
1970s UKAI 27x1.25" Cont Sport 1000 27x1 1/8 36 Suzu low 14-28 4240g
1980s Ambrosio 19 700c Cont Ultra Sport 700c 36 Shim 600 low 14-28 3550g
1970s Fiamme Red Tub Gomm Champ Tub 36 Specialized low 14-28 2995g

The 27x1.25" are 700g heavier than the 700c clinchers and 1245g heavier than the tubulars. I confused the 700c clinchers with the tubular weight. Tubulars are obviously the way to go, however, I recommended 700c clinchers to the OP. Empirical data is awesome no?

The 27x1.25 UKAI rims are aluminum, add another 500-700g for period-correct steel rims and the misery is still not at an end. Chrome steel rims are notoriously poor in the rain, and the tire choices are few.

If I had a 1940's race bike, I'd try and source some super-light 27x1.25" chromed steel rims. I'd never use alloy 27's, but would probably settle on some wood Ghisallo tubular rims.

Again, take me out of context and I sound like Satan. When read in context, I make sense.

cbutler

Sorry for my formatting error this is more readable:

Year-------Rim-----------------Tire---------------------------Spokes---Hub---------------FW-------Weight
1970s---- UKAI 27x1.25"-----Cont Sport 1000 27x1 1/8---36--------Suzu low----------14-28-----4240g
1980s-----Ambrosio 19 700c-Cont Ultra Sport 700c--------36--------Shim 600 low-----14-28-----3550g
1970s-----Fiamme Red Tub---Gomm Champ Tub-----------36--------Specialized low---14-28-----2995g

Millfield Velo

Well, I'm going to set the cat among the pigeons with this project.

Found as a basket case in my LBS, I mixed old and new to create a distinctive sunday cafe bike.



Baked enamel repaint with luglines..






Carbon 'bars and dual-pivot brakes...



Yes, that's a Shimano crankset with a cartridge BB...



Decals from H Lloyd Cycles...



A polarising restoration, you'll agree. I had no loyalty to the bike or its story; I simply wanted to see the results of uniting very old with very new.

I think it needed a different headset, and a higher spec front brake. I'm not sure the stem works, but done is done, as my Dad would have said.

It's my work, so I think it's great. It hasn't sold yet, so maybe the market doesn't agree. I'm not bothered though; it always produces smiles when i put it out on show.

Yes, I know it's not a 1948. When I built it, I didn't have a way to age it. I now think it's a mid-50s model, but I'm waiting for something more concrete before I change it.

Happy to hear your opinions, I'm sure this bike will produce a wide spectrum of them!

https://www.millfieldvelo.com.au/sho...1948-mal-rees/

Bad Lag

My suggestion -

While reassembling the bike, print a typed copy of the bike's story, it's heritage, as well as you know it. Roll that piece of paper into a tube and slide it into the seat tube, head tube, or somewhere that will keep it safe.

bikemig 

There is some poor advice being given and I don't say that lightly. In fact, I've never said that on this forum so I take my hat off to you.

You're kidding right? The parts from a PUG U0 8? Delrin derailleurs? Steel rims? Likely french threaded freewheel?

The mafac brakes are fine but you don't need to spend 110 pounds for that.

63rickert

Late to party. Primary builders for Mal Rees were Bill Hurlow and Wally Green. My first guess looking at the photos, even before checking the Mal Rees entry at CL, was that this was the work of Bill Hurlow. Simply the greatest English builder, period. Wally Green was no slouch either. This is a collector piece. No, does not mean it has great monetary value. Does mean best way to enjoy it is more or less as originally conceived.

I have a set of Weinmann 999 brakes of that vintage on my Bates. The way they stop is not the way 70s Weinmann brakes stop. Good brakes. Clean them up and use them.

Thought of using sprints? Tubulars to us Yanks. Any and every quality bike of that era is suitable for sprints. Sprint wheels of that era are as light as any carbon wheel and ride enormously better. Well, if you want to spend for Mielensteins the new ones are a little lighter. But cost 10 or 20 or 30 times what old sprints cost. And the old flat section sprints still ride better. Wired on tires from 50s and 60s were not much.

Not yet mentioned for refinish work and frame work is Mercian. Who also still does stove enamel. A frame that old will almost always need assistance from a builder as well as paint. I'd say use the shop that is nearest and the shop that shows an interest in the project. The shop that does the cleanup and paint will discover lots of clues about how this was originally built. Except for brakes and cranks I don't see much that looks like originality. The parts to make this bike a showpiece and a great rider are not expensive. The paint work might be.

cudak888 

Agreed. The best part about a UO-8 is the frame, surprising enough (side note: It would be interesting if someone lug thinned one someday). This advice suggests using the worst of a UO-8 and tossing the best part of it.

-Kurt

Lascauxcaveman 

I think it looks great, for what it is. Nice attention to detail and some bold colors as suits a super mod fixie. Personally, I would find it more enjoyable to ride if it had pedals But it's not a restoration at all; its a full-on custom job. 'Restoration' implies you're restoring it to original condition, or something very close. You went the opposite direction.

merziac

@Millfield Velo Way to relight a 3yr old zombie thread Steve, well done!

Your Mal Rees is so cool, a new and solid lease on life, it could live forever like this. Again, well done!

Now if we can get the OP to chime in we might be back in business.

Millfield Velo

@merziac Well, I too have a Mal Rees, so like most rare bike owners, I just wanna talk about it

Millfield Velo

I like this idea. Many thanks.

exmechanic89

I wouldn't put modern or even semi-modern parts on a build up of that frame. In your situation Op, I'd sell the frame to someone who would restore it properly and enjoy it for what it is/was meant to be. It's never gonna ride well as a modern build, and would require a lot of work to get most of those modern parts just to work with a frame that old. I'd also add that restoring a bike is a lot more difficult and (can be more) expensive than many people realize, thus sites like CL and eBay often have people's started restoration projects that went nowhere, and are now for sale cheap.