leicanthrope

Apparently just a smidge too new for Velobase... With the 6500 groupset, did they have a downtube shifter option at the time?

Eric S.

Shimano only makes "modern" DT shifters in the Dura Ace group. They work with anything else Shimano, though.

leicanthrope

I've been eyeballing those, but they're a little rich for my blood at the moment. I had been wondering if they used to make them for that groupset back when it was still a current groupset.

thinktubes 

if they did they wouldn't be cheap. The 8-sp version still sells for $$

m_sasso

To the best of my knowledge, no, there were none made. If you search the Shimano technical documentation here there is no documentation or info on any made: SHIMANO Dealer's Manual / User's Manual

Budget work around, I would say look for a set of 600 down tube shifters and stay friction, they should pull enough cable to swing 9 speeds and will be quite a bit less expensive than Dura Ace down tube shifters.

Or look at the Rivendell Silver Downtube Shifters or the Dia compe Ene Ciclo down tube shifters which can be found at any number of places from Soma to Velo Orange and will swing 9 speeds.

Eric S.

I've become a fan of using a bar end shifter for just the rear. I got some Microshift bar ends from China for $55.00 on eBay; took a couple weeks to get them. They're just as good as Shimano - only thing missing is the ability to switch to friction.

Eric S.

I'm still riding with a pair of Ultegra 8sp DT shifters I bought in 1992. I think they were $29.99 back then.

I have Dura Ace 9sp DTs on a couple bikes. They look great but the rear shifter clicks are LOUD. I don't know if it's because of 20+ years with the Ultegra 8 ones, but the clicks are almost inaudible.

rccardr 

There was no Ultegra DT option after 6403 8 speed. 9 and 10 speed are both DA, and they can be pricey. Look overseas at Wiggle, Ribble, Chain Reaction, ProBike, etc. for sale prices when they can be under $60 shipped to the USA.

7700 9 speed DT shifters did indeed use a different shifting mechanism than 8 speed, which has harder detents and makes a louder noise. 7800 and 7900 10 speed ones are a little quieter, but not as quiet as 6400 or 7400 series shifters.

top506

Pretty sure I have a pair of DA 9 speed DT shifters in the parts box.

Top

RobbieTunes

The 10-sp versions do, but the 9-sp versions (and OP was asking about 6500) do not. If a person comes across the 9-sp DT shifters, they're going to have to go to a DA RD, and that means short cage unless they want to spend major bucks (and time) looking for the rare 9-sp long cage 7700.

I have had success with the Sunrace 9-sp DT shifters, work fine with all but the DA 9-sp RD's. They are big and shiny, which makes them feel cumbersome, but a click is a click, be it on a short pretty lever or a large ungainly one.

The 10-sp DA DT shifters open up so many possibilities: triple, long-cage RD's for wide-range doubles, compacts, and all the "normal" stuff, as well. Any 10-sp Shimano RD will work (maybe not the mountain RD's, never tried) and the cassette possibilities are wide and affordable.

If I could just get some Campy DT 10sp shifters, I'd be building a classic-looking C&V bike with shiny happy Campy. The Record bar ends can be used on DT's, from what I've learned, with a set of the square, tabbed backing plates from some other Campy DT shifters. thirdgenbird here on BF C&V made this happen, but other than him, I've not see it done.

So, in summary, in my experience. Others can correct me at will (and will):

8-sp DA downtube works well with 8-sp DA RD. Any Shimano/SRAM 8-sp cassette. DA = DA for 8sp.

8-sp 600/Ultegra, RSX, RX100 and the "new" Shimano 8-sp downtube work well with any road RD except DA, any 8-sp cassette.
Mix and match to your heart's content, but keep DA out of it.

9-sp DA downtube works well with 9-sp DA RD's, any Shimano/SRAM 9-sp cassette.
They do not work with other Shimano 9-sp RD's. DA = DA for 9-sp.

9-sp Sunrace downtube works well with 9-sp non-DA RD's, any Shimano/SRAM 9-sp cassette.
They are cheap and large, but work. Mix and match to your heart's content, but leae DA out of it.

10-sp DA downtube works welll with any 10-sp Shimano road RD's, any Shimano/SRAM 10-sp cassette.
Mix and match to your heart's content. Realize you'll be shifting more, because you can.

PS: like the good Doc says, 8-sp is shift, clunk, done. 9-sp and 10-sp are shift, plink, done.

Slash5

I don't think that is true. 9 speed Dura Ace is the same as any other Shimano road group. 9 speed Dura Ace bar ends are standard for Shimano road groups and I ran them on my monster cross bike with a SLX rear derailleur. Upgraded to 10 speed bar ends when I got a deal at a swap meet.

BradH

What he said ^. You can use a 9 speed 7700 DA DT shifter with any SIS compatible Shimano RD. The 8 speed and below DA stuff has limited to no compatibility with other Shimano stuff.

leicanthrope

If I'm going to go 9 speed with friction, I'd probably just go for bar ends. I lack the finesse for friction downtube shifting with 9 speed rear spacing, especially given all the hills around my new place.

The bike in question is already built up. I was able to get a "bought it for my son, and he never used it" deal on Craigslist locally. It was originally built up with RX100 (7 speed), but has an Ultegra 6500 RD and wheelset. Right now, I'm running the original shifters in friction mode, but it's not especially graceful.

leicanthrope

Ooooh. Let me know.

Eric S.

I'm currently using Dura Ace 9sp DT shifters on two bikes - one has an old Ultegra 7sp rear derailler, and the other is a Tiagra 4600. Everything works perfectly.

Wileyone 

I run a DA 8 speed DT shifters with my 7700 DA 9 speed group set. The 7700 DT shifters were to pricey got nos 8 speed for $30.

rccardr 

^^ That should not work well, since the cable pull on DA 8 speed shifters is different than the cable pull required by DA 7700 derailleurs.

However, we all have our own version of 'works well'...

mountaindave 

If you already have the 9s hub and are going to acquire bar ends, just go all the way and get 10s bar ends. Easier to find and you'll probably want a different cassette anyway.

fwiw, I grew up on indexing and I find 8s friction to be the limit I want to try. I could learn 9 or 10 but I would only attempt it with bar ends. But that's why we invented indexed shifting... so I don't have to learn.

leicanthrope

That's exactly where I am too. My daily bike (which is sadly still in California), has Suntour bar ends paired with an 8 speed XT cassette. That works like a charm. Friction mode downtube shifters on 9 speed are proving to be a headache.

Wileyone 

I know what works well and it works very well. I use a 9 speed chain and an 8 speed cassette.

ThermionicScott 

Were there 9-speed bar-end shifters that could be repurposed?

bradtx

There are, SL-BS77. Expensive enough to just use as bar ends.

Brad

mountaindave 

Is that the situation solved by using "alternate cable routing" at the RD? It's good that people sometimes try things out for real rather than just accept dogma.

I made sure to hunt down the older flavor of 10s bar ends that still had the index AND friction mode. Not that I would want to do it, but I like the security it affords. I also am temporarily using 7s DT shifters in friction mode to test out a new 8s wheel set. I like having friction as an option, but prefer index for 7 speeds and above.

RobbieTunes

Hmm, I wonder why the decal on DA 8sp and 9sp bar ends, that specify they only be used with DA RD's?
Hmm, and I wonder why the decal on 6400 8sp and 6500 9sp bar ends, that specify them not to be used with DA RD's?

Glad it worked out for you. I tried 9-sp DA DT shifters with a 6500 group and they worked 3 cogs in, then noise.
I took them to a shop, and he told me DA 9 = DA 9 and nothing else. Then he showed me the Shimano lit saying same.

I had even worse results with 9-sp DA DT shifters and 105 9-sp RD and cassette.

I'm a big proponent of "whatever works." I've run 8-sp Ultegra with 8-sp Campy wheels/cassette, never a problem.
Like mountaindave, I subscribe to ignorance being bliss unless it isn't. Otherwise, I'd never have a retro roadie fetish.

embankmentlb

Maybe this will help. Out of the 2003 SHimano book.

Looks like All 9 speed stuff works with all other 9 speed stuff. That has been my practical experience also.
I have never used bar end shifters of any type.