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Ironman Information Thread

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Old 06-02-17, 06:31 PM
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Testor's yellow is darn close to the yellow. I've found some fuscia stuff close to the other color,
and it's hit/miss on that. Been a while so I am not spot on.

Originally Posted by tcpasley View Post
Was that original crown race spec for the '87 Iroman Master? I picked up two '87 framesets (frame/fork only - well, the Ironman Expert also has a stuck seatpost). The Ironman Master has a bad black repaint, so I'm not 100% sure if the fork is original, but it has "TANGE" stamped on the steerer and has a sloping crown. The dropouts have pronounced lawyer lips, and the inner side of the dropout openings is tapered to allow for an easier wheel change. The fork has a 27.0mm diameter crown race. Do y'all think that it's probably original?

Also, on the Ironman Expert, the top tube cable guides have been sprayed black to stop rust. I might try to blast just the rusty spots and touch it up with rattle can paint if I can find a good match. Has anyone found good matches for the Miami Vice colors?

Sorry for not having pictures. Maybe later.

Thanks
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Old 06-02-17, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by arizona cowboy View Post
Does anyone know the weight of each Ironman model by year, and the MSRP by year? - Those two pieces of data seem to be elusive on the Internet.
Hard to tell, they ride "lighter," but if someone asked me, I'd say 21-22 lbs, "give or take" and let them eyeball my bike and wonder why I seem so tall, even at 5'6"
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Old 06-02-17, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
We are going to Sticky this thread and see how it goes.
Gratitude to a Semi Pro veteran.
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Old 06-02-17, 06:35 PM
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Master model was generally $48 higher, but some shops went $98 and got it.
Still a bargain.

Originally Posted by Vintage_Cyclist View Post
Where obtainable from documents: Prices are from Bicycling magazine reviews, except where indicated. Weights are from catalogs, except 1989 (Bicycling review).

1989
IM Master- ?? lbs $???
IM Expert- 23 lbs $650

1988
IM Master- ?? lbs $600 (cost to me new as a leftover in 1989)
IM Expert- ?? lbs $???

1987
IM Master- 22.7 lbs $650
IM Expert- 23.7 lbs $520

1986
IM only- 22.7 lbs $525

1985
IM only- 22.7 lbs $???
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Old 06-05-17, 02:22 PM
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So, does anyone have any idea of how many bikes were made for each year? Sort of a rarity scale?
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Old 06-12-17, 09:16 PM
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The Vintage Centurion site shows what appears to be a reprint of specs either from the manufacturer or a magazine review, specifying a weight of 23 lbs, 1/4 oz, for the 1989 Ironman Expert as originally equipped, including 700x18c tires.

Probably accurate. Using my scale I got 24 lbs with my mostly stock '89 Ironman Expert. The only non-stock bits are a set of 700x23 Vittoria Zaffiro tires, a new thin Bontrager tape with Bontrager reflective end plugs, a couple of cheap plastic Trek bottle cages, and a Lycra covered padded Terry saddle (with the model name obscured -- I can only read the last few letters that appear to read "****GENA").

That site also shows some reprints including MSRP for some bikes, including $650 for the 1989 Ironman Expert.

Originally Posted by arizona cowboy View Post
Does anyone know the weight of each Ironman model by year, and the MSRP by year? - Those two pieces of data seem to be elusive on the Internet.
Originally Posted by Vintage_Cyclist View Post
Where obtainable from documents: Prices are from Bicycling magazine reviews, except where indicated. Weights are from catalogs, except 1989 (Bicycling review).

1989
IM Master- ?? lbs $???
IM Expert- 23 lbs $650

1988
IM Master- ?? lbs $600 (cost to me new as a leftover in 1989)
IM Expert- ?? lbs $???

1987
IM Master- 22.7 lbs $650
IM Expert- 23.7 lbs $520

1986
IM only- 22.7 lbs $525

1985
IM only- 22.7 lbs $???
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Hard to tell, they ride "lighter," but if someone asked me, I'd say 21-22 lbs, "give or take" and let them eyeball my bike and wonder why I seem so tall, even at 5'6"
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Master model was generally $48 higher, but some shops went $98 and got it.
Still a bargain.
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Old 06-15-17, 09:53 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Dega1979 View Post
My 1889 Ironman Master had Sampson clipless pedals as original equipment
That's a really early one!
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Old 06-15-17, 09:55 AM
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Is the Centurion Carbon (from '88) considered an Ironman? - as these as desirable as other Ironmans?
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Old 06-15-17, 10:09 AM
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Ironman Carbon

Originally Posted by arizona cowboy View Post
Is the Centurion Carbon (from '88) considered an Ironman? - as these as desirable as other Ironmans?
I would expect so I saw a YouTube of Dave Scott riding one in Hawaiian Ironman TRI
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Old 07-05-17, 11:13 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by arizona cowboy View Post
Is the Centurion Carbon (from '88) considered an Ironman? - as these as desirable as other Ironmans?
There was both a Centurion Carbon and a Ironman Carbon, the Ironman Carbon, Yes . The Centurion Carbon, no. But either one are rare and are always sought after, like the Prestige models.
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Old 07-06-17, 11:45 AM
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A bit of info to update, the bottom Bracket shell is 68mm 1.37x24

Axle lengths Stock BB:
87 master 120mm
88 Master 120mm

Note: looks like 113-118 have also been been used with success 120 was long for the needs
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Old 07-07-17, 02:49 AM
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Findings on my 1989 mostly stock Ironman Master that are different than my other Ironman.
1. Winpista bar and stems as opposed to nitto b15 and stem.
2. Shimano 600 (6400) bottom bracket to match rest of group.
3. Although a small 52cm frame it came with 32 spokes front and rear wheels.
4. The seat post is 27.2.
5. No bio pace.
6. It is in blue marbled color scheme or "Summertime Blues".
Finally it seems to be the quickest handling of all my Ironman including my other 89 abeit an expert.
Here's a pic as I received it from original owner who had replaced saddle tires and wrap, however wasn't sure if the white 6400 pedals were oem.
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Old 07-08-17, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fleslider View Post
There was both a Centurion Carbon and a Ironman Carbon, the Ironman Carbon, Yes . The Centurion Carbon, no. But either one are rare and are always sought after, like the Prestige models.
The Ironman Carbon was an '88 with Dura Ace 2x7 and $1195. It had a noodly fork, was nowhere near as stiff as the steel frames, but was a very nice all-day rider, and light for the era. It was also for the US market, as far as I know, and fell victim to the yen's effect on the price at the time.

The Centurion Carbon-R was an updated model based on the Ironman Carbon frame, a year later, minimum, maybe even 1990. The shoulder of the fork was lowered and this greatly mitigated the noodle effect. I believe it was 600 tricolor 8-speed, but it may have been 7-speed; I'm not sure. If it was a US market item, I'd be surprised, as I've seen far more Asian market models. I have no idea the MSRP.

I'm guessing Dave Scott was not a marketing advantage in Australia or the Asian market, or was not licensed there. Many models of the US market were offered under different names in other markets.

Having owned and ridden both, I give the nod to the better riding Carbon-R.

I honestly can't remember if there was a Centurion Carbon vs. a Centurion Carbon-R. The possibility exists that there was a Centurion Carbon with the same frame but 600 tricolor vs. Dura Ace on the Ironman Carbon, and then the updated frame of the Carbon-R appeared later.

Pure conjecture. I dig my Carbon-R a lot.
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Old 07-08-17, 09:49 PM
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Decided to inspect, clean and relube the jockey wheels on the Suntour GPX rear derailer while replacing the chain. Good thing -- the bearing bolts needed to be snugged down a bit better anyway.

The design made it easy to disassemble and reassemble. Unlike some older Suntour rear derailers it wasn't necessary to disassemble the entire derailer or get into any springs or tricky stuff. Just remove the two bearing bolts and the jockey wheels and half the cage plate come off.

The jockey wheels felt a bit gritty. Cleaned them in mineral spirits and relubed with Park CL-1 chain oil with PTFE. Used a dab of blue Loctite on the threads.

The jockey wheels are marked "G" (guide, upper pulley) and "T" (tension, lower pulley). While some DIY tips recommend maintaining the original assembly configuration this doesn't appear to be necessary with the Suntour GPX. The jockey wheel, bearing bushing and dust caps for each appear reversible -- they're identical for each jockey wheel and there are no arrows indicating directionality.However the jockey wheels, bearing bushings, dust caps and bearing bolts are not interchangeable between the "G" and "T", so I kept each disassembled jockey wheel in separate containers.

***
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Old 07-14-17, 01:33 PM
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I see from the old catalogs that the Suntour GPX brake levers supposedly have adjustable reach. I peeled back the hoods but didn't see any accessible screws or bolts that might adjust the reach.

I didn't remove the bar tape to look more closely.

Any idea how this was done? If memory serves some older brake levers could be "adjusted" with shims, but I'd rather not bother with that if it's what Suntour meant by adjustable.
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Old 07-16-17, 04:26 PM
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I'd leave well enough alone.
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Old 07-21-17, 03:11 PM
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For Ironman owners with Araya CTL-370 rims, what are you using for rim tape? I need something sturdy enough to protect the tubes from extruding through the nipple holes, but thin enough to not interfere with seating the tire bead.

I'll repost a moderately lengthy anecdote from another thread:

I may have averted a flat last weekend simply by swapping tires.

I'd ridden a set of 700x23 Vittoria Zaffiros on my new-to-me Centurion Ironman for five or six weeks, long enough to be in good enough shape to blame the tires for my not terribly impressive performance. Despite the bike weighing much less than my Univega Via Carisma with rear rack and 700x42 tires, I wasn't much faster on the road bike.

I'd read that Zaffiros have poor rolling resistance so I ordered a set of Schwalbe One V-Guards in 700x23 (only $15 from Jenson). Very highly regarded tires with low rolling resistance, per 2014 reviews.

When I pulled the old tires and tubes I noticed a warning sign I'd seen before: dimples on the inside of the tube, corresponding with the deep nipple holes in the Araya CTL-370 double wall rims.

Last time I'd encountered this was about six months after installing a new wheel on my errand bike, with a double wall Weinmann rim to replace the original single wall rim. After a few months the thin rubber rim tape didn't provide enough support. The tube extruded through the nipple holes and the tips of several dimples had tiny cracks and slow leaks. I replaced the thin rubber rim tape with cloth -- Velox, Nashbar, I don't recall, they're all the same. No problems since.

One of the Araya rims had some ancient rim strip that was hardened and essentially bonded to the rim, effectively providing no support over the deep nipple holes. I tried using cloth rim tape and a new tube but the new tires wouldn't seat. So for now I'm taking a chance the new tube will last until I can replace the rim strip.

The other Araya rim had a newer rubber rim strip and no signs of extruding on the strip or tube. So I just mounted the new Schwalbes on both rims.

The Schwalbe One V-Guards are great, BTW. Very light rolling. I picked up 1 mph on familiar routes without even pushing hard and racked up several personal bests per Strava. Doesn't feel like I'm fighting the tires anymore.

But now I need to find some proper rim strips for both Araya CTL-370's to support the tubes properly.
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Old 07-21-17, 05:01 PM
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What you want is high pressure rim strip. It's typically made of plastic/nylon. Harder to apply and remove but more resistant to deformation. I've been using Michelin's version for four decades.
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Old 07-21-17, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
What you want is high pressure rim strip. It's typically made of plastic/nylon. Harder to apply and remove but more resistant to deformation. I've been using Michelin's version for four decades.
Thanks! I see it now that I know what to look for. I'd been searching generic rim strips for a couplafew days and kept coming up with the same rubber bands or cloth tape. I'll order some before the new tubes extrude through the nipple holes.
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Old 07-24-17, 04:56 AM
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FSA and SRAM both offer those rim strips. I think I picked some up at REI
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Old 08-02-17, 08:45 AM
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Is this a good place collect a frame size database? The consensus (seems to me) is to measure the ST center to top (scallop of lug) and the TT center to center. The ST measure is the "Frame Size" ALWAYS even centimeters.

On hand I have: (ST X TT)
1989 Expert: 58x58
1987 Expert: 60x57
1987 Expert: 54x54
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Old 08-04-17, 09:08 AM
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Not sure if I posted it here, but here's how Centurion sized them.....

ST=c-bb, measured along the side of the ST to the lowest part of the scalloped opening at the seat cluster, roughly equivalent to c-top but not.
TT=c-c from the ST at the top, measured along the TT, to the center of the heat tube, at that level.

The "general" sizes began at "square" 56x56, and increased/decreased by 1cm of TT for every 2cm step of ST.
STxTT
50x53
52x54(always seemed more like 53 to me)
54x55
56x56
58x57
60x58

I've seen slight variations, but every tape measure is different, and every frame is different, so take everything at face value and understand this was 30 years ago.
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Old 08-07-17, 06:57 AM
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First I love my new MV. What I noticed is that a 27.2 seatpost is tough to get in, never had that trouble with any other Ironman. Could explain why my other MV has a stuck post. I'll have to keep a maintenance eye on it.
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Old 08-07-17, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by texaspandj View Post
First I love my new MV. What I noticed is that a 27.2 seatpost is tough to get in, never had that trouble with any other Ironman. Could explain why my other MV has a stuck post. I'll have to keep a maintenance eye on it.
I'm not sure about any of the other model years, but according to Centurion's catalog the 1985 Ironman takes a 27.0 post.

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Old 08-07-17, 03:47 PM
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'87 Miami Vice should be 27.2


I agree 27.0 on the '85, though I used a 27.2 on mine, go figure. I think it was a cheap CF post, so there's that.
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