Campy Victory /Triomphe mech to long cage?
#26
Old guy on a Bike
Resurrection.
Perhaps this may assist.
Using a Campagnolo Triomphe short cage w/ 14 - 30t six speed, 52 - 40t chainrings. (Btw: 2018 and finding the 'original' Campy, under 40t for this BCD is getting pricey.) Pushing the limit but the cheap stamped steel backside cage plate looks like havoc awaiting to snag something. No 'b' adjustment on this unit.
Mounts much vertical and really should be used on a long horizontal axle dropout allowing more chain on a cog. Or consider the derailleur / dropout mount stop. There may be some different casted positioning for these two derailleurs.
Swapped the rear derailleur to a Victory short cage. Reset the 'b' adjustment, fiddly and tiny casting at the pivot mount. Doesn't allow much but worthy to inspect. This derailleur has a better backside cage plate. Shifting improved.
Lastly, both above have replaced plastic Crapagnolo jockey pulleys for no slop aluminum / sealed bearing type.
Perhaps this may assist.
Using a Campagnolo Triomphe short cage w/ 14 - 30t six speed, 52 - 40t chainrings. (Btw: 2018 and finding the 'original' Campy, under 40t for this BCD is getting pricey.) Pushing the limit but the cheap stamped steel backside cage plate looks like havoc awaiting to snag something. No 'b' adjustment on this unit.
Mounts much vertical and really should be used on a long horizontal axle dropout allowing more chain on a cog. Or consider the derailleur / dropout mount stop. There may be some different casted positioning for these two derailleurs.
Swapped the rear derailleur to a Victory short cage. Reset the 'b' adjustment, fiddly and tiny casting at the pivot mount. Doesn't allow much but worthy to inspect. This derailleur has a better backside cage plate. Shifting improved.
Lastly, both above have replaced plastic Crapagnolo jockey pulleys for no slop aluminum / sealed bearing type.
#27
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On a related note, I tried to transplant a NOS Victory short cage to a Nuovo Record RD, to try to get more cog capacity. The problem was that the Victory took a larger mounting bolt than the NR (6mm instead of 5mm if I remember correctly). So swapping a Soma cage (designed for NR/SR) would not work for a Victory, without re-tapping the cage threads. I ended up finding a SR cage so now have a franken-NR/SR RD that can handle 30t freewheel cogs.
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The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy
The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy
#28
Steel IS Real
Lots of great info here.
Just to put my 0.02 cents in here:
I'm currently using a Campy Centaur RD, 13-28 SunRace 7-speed FW with standard 42-53 front Victory chainrings, and a SRAM PC850 chain. I have a couple of Victory RD's laying around because they wouldn't fit larger freewheels in stock form, so kudos to the posters who did the conversion, perhaps one day I'll covert my RD's to fit long cages.
I am super jealous of you guys with compact front chain rings, I can't find one on eBay or anywhere to save my life, would love at least a 40 up front haha.
Pic of my setup below, works decently well with friction shifters.
Just to put my 0.02 cents in here:
I'm currently using a Campy Centaur RD, 13-28 SunRace 7-speed FW with standard 42-53 front Victory chainrings, and a SRAM PC850 chain. I have a couple of Victory RD's laying around because they wouldn't fit larger freewheels in stock form, so kudos to the posters who did the conversion, perhaps one day I'll covert my RD's to fit long cages.
I am super jealous of you guys with compact front chain rings, I can't find one on eBay or anywhere to save my life, would love at least a 40 up front haha.
Pic of my setup below, works decently well with friction shifters.
Last edited by greenscobie86; 06-09-18 at 10:10 PM.
#30
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Blasphemy and sacrilege!!!
Heretic that I am... I'm going directly to the inner circle of hell! (Dante's Inferno)
Campagnolo introduced the Victory and Triomphe gruppos in 1983.
They were attempting to regain market share in the lucrative mid-range component market that they lost to the Japanese makers.
Only a few European bike manufactures were using the low end Campy Nuovo Gran Sport gruppo with the uber ugly cheap looking rear derailleur. Shimano and Suntour were eating Campagnolo's lunch in that arena.
The Nuovo Record gruppo was long in the tooth, little changed in ~20 years. The basic rear derailleur design went back to 1951!
Super Record components were just an over priced gussied up version of the Nuovo Record gruppo with some lightening and titanium parts.
The Triomphe gruppo was targeted to replace Nuovo Gran Sport components while the Victory gruppo was supposed to replace the Nuovo Record gruppo.
In 1984-5 C-Record was supposed to replace the Super Record gruppo as Campy's top of the line offering.
Several things derailed those plans:
The first was that Campianistas were so locked into the stogy appearance of NR/SR components that they totally rejected the looks of the new gruppos. The designs of some or most of the new components were drastic departures from the easily recognizable 20 year old appearances of NR and SR components.
Next, the wholesale prices for the new gruppos were much more expensive than for NR and SR gruppos. Add to that, Campagnolo lost control of their OEM distribution network in Europe. NR and SR production was supposed to have stopped by the mid 80's but there was so much inventory of the old components in the pipeline that full Campy NR bikes were being sold as late as 1988!
Last but probably most important, most European bike manufacturers were reluctant to switch from known products to gruppos that hadn't been proven successful in the market place.
Also, the Pro Peloton was still using Super Record gruppos past the mid 80's. In the US the pro bike set were/are the most slavish adherents to style, fashion and what the pros are doing than possibly any other sporting activity!!!
After 1985 some European bike makers like Bianchi and Gitane started offering a few mid range models with Triomphe and Victory gruppos.
By the late 80's Campy threw in thew towel started offering a wider assortment of gruppos with modern designs to try to compete against Shimano. They also finally switched to drop arm rear derailleur designs like those used by Shimano and Suntour.
BTW, the geometry on the Triomphe and Victory rear derailleurs is almost the same as was used on the 1966 Nuovo Record derailleurs (which was about the same as Camp's 1951 design). They had the same cage geometry as the 2nd generation Super Record derailleurs which allowed a 28T freewheel sprocket instead of 26T of the NR and early SR derailleurs. The early C-Record derailleurs were about the same.
This is a very loose analysis of the history of Campagnolo rear derailleurs during the 1980's. I was riding off road most of the time from the 80's until 2006. Lots of things happened during those years that I was into.
The important thing to note is where the Triomphe and Victory gruppos fit into the scheme....
verktyg
Chas.
Heretic that I am... I'm going directly to the inner circle of hell! (Dante's Inferno)
Campagnolo introduced the Victory and Triomphe gruppos in 1983.
They were attempting to regain market share in the lucrative mid-range component market that they lost to the Japanese makers.
Only a few European bike manufactures were using the low end Campy Nuovo Gran Sport gruppo with the uber ugly cheap looking rear derailleur. Shimano and Suntour were eating Campagnolo's lunch in that arena.
The Nuovo Record gruppo was long in the tooth, little changed in ~20 years. The basic rear derailleur design went back to 1951!
Super Record components were just an over priced gussied up version of the Nuovo Record gruppo with some lightening and titanium parts.
The Triomphe gruppo was targeted to replace Nuovo Gran Sport components while the Victory gruppo was supposed to replace the Nuovo Record gruppo.
In 1984-5 C-Record was supposed to replace the Super Record gruppo as Campy's top of the line offering.
Several things derailed those plans:
The first was that Campianistas were so locked into the stogy appearance of NR/SR components that they totally rejected the looks of the new gruppos. The designs of some or most of the new components were drastic departures from the easily recognizable 20 year old appearances of NR and SR components.
Next, the wholesale prices for the new gruppos were much more expensive than for NR and SR gruppos. Add to that, Campagnolo lost control of their OEM distribution network in Europe. NR and SR production was supposed to have stopped by the mid 80's but there was so much inventory of the old components in the pipeline that full Campy NR bikes were being sold as late as 1988!
Last but probably most important, most European bike manufacturers were reluctant to switch from known products to gruppos that hadn't been proven successful in the market place.
Also, the Pro Peloton was still using Super Record gruppos past the mid 80's. In the US the pro bike set were/are the most slavish adherents to style, fashion and what the pros are doing than possibly any other sporting activity!!!
After 1985 some European bike makers like Bianchi and Gitane started offering a few mid range models with Triomphe and Victory gruppos.
By the late 80's Campy threw in thew towel started offering a wider assortment of gruppos with modern designs to try to compete against Shimano. They also finally switched to drop arm rear derailleur designs like those used by Shimano and Suntour.
BTW, the geometry on the Triomphe and Victory rear derailleurs is almost the same as was used on the 1966 Nuovo Record derailleurs (which was about the same as Camp's 1951 design). They had the same cage geometry as the 2nd generation Super Record derailleurs which allowed a 28T freewheel sprocket instead of 26T of the NR and early SR derailleurs. The early C-Record derailleurs were about the same.
This is a very loose analysis of the history of Campagnolo rear derailleurs during the 1980's. I was riding off road most of the time from the 80's until 2006. Lots of things happened during those years that I was into.
The important thing to note is where the Triomphe and Victory gruppos fit into the scheme....
verktyg
Chas.
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“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
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Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
#31
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Whatever parts that you all might be trying, don't forget that the axle adjuster screws on the dropouts are your best friend when it comes to fine-tuning the big-cog clearance vs. having sufficient chain tensioning over the smallest sprockets.
Failing to fiddle with the chain length and axle-tensioning screws leaves a lot on the table, especially with derailers lacking an upper-pivot spring or adjuster.
Chas, good advice all! Looks like your Holdsworth might be one of the later "Marlboro" Holdsworths, no?
Your frame looks just like mine to my eye.
Failing to fiddle with the chain length and axle-tensioning screws leaves a lot on the table, especially with derailers lacking an upper-pivot spring or adjuster.
Chas, good advice all! Looks like your Holdsworth might be one of the later "Marlboro" Holdsworths, no?
Your frame looks just like mine to my eye.
#32
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I have a triomphe long cage rear derailleur in my bin. It will shift to a 32t rear cog with ease.
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