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Not one of my best finds, but...

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Not one of my best finds, but...

Old 12-16-15, 11:45 AM
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Not one of my best finds, but...

I've been after this for two years and I was finally able to convince my friend to let it go.













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Old 12-16-15, 11:51 AM
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Heck it would have ranked as one of my better finds. This is sweet.
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Old 12-16-15, 12:06 PM
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Sloar,

That one is straight from Mt Olympus! Colour had me thinking you got a Raleigh. Is it all chrome underneath ?

2 years means it's a keeper? Look forward to more show and tell.
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Old 12-16-15, 12:12 PM
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I sell a lot, but this fits perfect and just has that look that I love. Keeper!
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Old 12-16-15, 12:22 PM
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Not a lot of Italvegas on the left coast, never seen one around town or on the road. Classic color, chromed socks all round, nice crankset, RD glows = what's not to like?

And congrats for grinding down a friend after 2 years. True C&V dedication.
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Old 12-16-15, 12:58 PM
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You're gonna love riding that bike, though if it were mine I might change out the rear derailer, freewheel and chain.

The Green paint looks like a candy bronzed green, lighter on the green top layer than Raleigh's or Schwinn's, moving into Legnano green territory.

It's a looker for sure, one I would keep. Lugwork seems along the lines of a '77 Centurion Semi-Pro or certain of the Schwinn Voyageur IIs.

How nice that your friend invested in the fresh hoods!
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Old 12-16-15, 01:17 PM
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At first glance I thought "very clean Raliegh"....Closer inspection reveals something much cooler! Well done!

Cheers,
Chris
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Old 12-16-15, 01:34 PM
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Gorgeous bike! Do you know what year?
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Old 12-16-15, 01:42 PM
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Sucker for chrome! Beautiful!

Are those black Universal brake hoods!? Never seen that before.

What is with he front QR lever? Looks like it is open.
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Old 12-16-15, 02:15 PM
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I believe the whole frame is chrome. The silver on the seattube is chrome, I thought it was decals at first. The hoods are A'ME, I plan on black cloth tape and black cables. Everything else stays as is. It's completely apart now and cleaning up better than expected.
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Old 12-16-15, 02:18 PM
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It's gorgeous, and I can get all sentimental about those components, because they date from around the time I became aware of 10-speed bikes.

As you might know, that rear derailleur is considered one of the worst ever made. A few years ago, I had to try one and bought one on ebay. Wow. It's hard to get it where you want it, and then it just drifts all over the place for no apparent reason. But it's built like a tank and will never die.

Is this the bike you mentioned when asking about schrader/presta adapters?
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Old 12-16-15, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
It's gorgeous, and I can get all sentimental about those components, because they date from around the time I became aware of 10-speed bikes.

As you might know, that rear derailleur is considered one of the worst ever made. A few years ago, I had to try one and bought one on ebay. Wow. It's hard to get it where you want it, and then it just drifts all over the place for no apparent reason. But it's built like a tank and will never die.

Is this the bike you mentioned when asking about schrader/presta adapters?
It is! Hopefully the r/d works ok. It's one of the many reasons why I like the bike. I don't expect high performance, but I hope I can make it work.
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Old 12-16-15, 02:29 PM
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Paging @aixaix! He once explained to me the design flaws which pretty much guaranties that you can't expect it to work well. I think I gave it to him so he could try modifying it.
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Old 12-16-15, 03:13 PM
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Great to see this olde friend. The one I owned was the same colour and size.

Don't forget that you can post it to the "Show us your Torpado" thread as the OP hath writ that all Torresinis are welcome, regardless of how badged.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...r-torpado.html
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Old 12-16-15, 03:34 PM
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Ohhh, Tom! You really want me to dredge up all that Gran Turismo data and misery again?
In sum: the body is too long; the distance from the jockey roller to the cluster is too great in the higher gears; the body return spring is way too stiff. This means that shift effort is considerably greater than with other derailleurs and ghost shifts are common. In addition, if you send the cage into your rear spokes, it will rip them out IF YOU'RE LUCKY! If you aren't, it will tear the drop-out right off the frame.

It also weighs nearly as much as a car battery.

Cool look though. The Grim Reaper of derailleurs.
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Old 12-16-15, 03:52 PM
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But other than those modest flaws...it's a fine derailleur. :<
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Old 12-16-15, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by aixaix View Post
Ohhh, Tom! You really want me to dredge up all that Gran Turismo data and misery again?
In sum: the body is too long; the distance from the jockey roller to the cluster is too great in the higher gears; the body return spring is way too stiff. This means that shift effort is considerably greater than with other derailleurs and ghost shifts are common. In addition, if you send the cage into your rear spokes, it will rip them out IF YOU'RE LUCKY! If you aren't, it will tear the drop-out right off the frame.

It also weighs nearly as much as a car battery.

Cool look though. The Grim Reaper of derailleurs.
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Old 12-16-15, 04:25 PM
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Maybe best to limit the freewheel to just five cogs, since the return spring starts to act fierce (enough to encourage shifter slippage) as the derailer nears the limits of it's inward swing.

I spaced these bike's axles to slightly reduce the needed inward throw of the derailer, and had it almost indexing a 6s Uniglide cassette in both directions, even with the very old and very long cabling to the 7s indexed bar-end shifter (SIS-7 mode worked better than 6s mode btw).
I was amazed by this derailer's ability to handle every ratio that the 30-40-50t chainset and 13-34t cassette presented (this was intended as a worst-case test after all), do in no small part to the dual-sprung pivoting (which I believe would be the first and only Campagnolo derailer to feature this for another 20 years).

For all but the largest freewheel cogs, I suggest using the 13t top pulley that Mike ended up using for his test (which gets the pulley teeth closer to the cog's teeth), and also using a long-handled shift lever. A ratcheted DT shifter (shorter cabling helps a lot here) might be the best you can do, along with a well-selected and tested combination of chain and cogs.
Drilling another hole for the mounting bolt pivot spring to allow for relaxing the B-tension would be a really good way to close the chain gap, and also reduce the chain tension loading that multiplies friction in the parallelogram.

I re-worked my G-T differently, increasing the cage pivot spring tension to bring the top pulley closer to the cogs, but the added chain tension that this created seemed to increase the friction in the parallelogram, which did not bode well for the indexing performance when used with the super-long and 20+ year-old bar-end cabling, which began behaving more elastically (due to the parallelogram friction) than the indexing wanted.

Suntour made extra-long lever stem shifters with ratcheting action, which would be the perfect match for the G-T if they could be fitted on the downtube, since I can't think of another brand of long, ratcheting or retrofriction downtube levers.

Here's a couple of the test fixtures I used while tinkering, and where I was able to test with a reasonably small chain gap up to both the 6-speed freewheel and cassette. The G-T did handle the chain-wrap&gap functions beautifully on the very wide-ranging triple, seemingly quite an accomplishment for an early-1970s derailer.






Drilling new holes for the pivot springing is not difficult, but in hindsight I chose the wrong pivot to do this to:




Making a lighter return spring also failed to improve matters on this first effort, if only due to the inadequate material specification of the thinner spoke wire, which couldn't be pre-loaded sufficiently without yielding. I should have heat-treated it! Note added coil for a more-linear return-force curve:


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Old 12-16-15, 04:28 PM
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Very nice-looking machine!

Those cranks look like Stronglight 49D, but am I mistaken in that the branding is different?
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Old 12-16-15, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Heck it would have ranked as one of my better finds. This is sweet.
Don't be so modest Bikemig.

Originally Posted by sloar View Post
I sell a lot, but this fits perfect and just has that look that I love. Keeper!
Keeper? Ha! Maybe until next year.
Love the color, nice camera work too!
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Old 12-16-15, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by oddjob2 View Post
Don't be so modest Bikemig.



Keeper? Ha! Maybe until next year.
Love the color, nice camera work too!
I can't argue that, I do plan on keeping it as of now. I have a lot more keepers than you think. Even though I love my new camera, these are iPhone pics. I'll wait till it's finished to break out the real camera.
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Old 12-16-15, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sloar View Post
I can't argue that, I do plan on keeping it as of now. I have a lot more keepers than you think. Even though I love my new camera, these are iPhone pics. I'll wait till it's finished to break out the real camera.

The hunt is probably 1/3 the thrill, the restoration 25%, and the balance is riding it. Nothing wrong with fleet upgrading, espcially when my garage isn't getting any bigger.
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Old 12-16-15, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by oddjob2 View Post
The hunt is probably 1/3 the thrill, the restoration 25%, and the balance is riding it. Nothing wrong with fleet upgrading, espcially when my garage isn't getting any bigger.
A big part for me is finding them and bringing them back to life. If it's something I don't love when it's finished I sell it and buy another one. Someone else gets a great deal on a finished bike and I get my funds back for something else.
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Old 12-16-15, 06:28 PM
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Those derailleurs are great! Find a bike with that derailleur, and you can be 99% sure it was not ridden much. That leaves a 1% chance some whacko intentionally installed it, which a real danger, but one you can avoid by not buying from members of this forum.

Seriously, if it's a keeper, and a rider, take good photos when it's all cleaned up, then change the derailleur to ANYTHING else and go for a ride.

Otherwise, well, you know... after you rebuild the wheels, after you straightened the stay, after you walked home carrying the bike, after shifting the derailleur into the spokes, after you had it adjusted just right... it won't be a keeper any more.
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Old 12-16-15, 06:45 PM
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I really like the Velox derailleur. Works perfect, no issues and they seem robust tough with no slop. Using it as a 5 speed only and with Bullseye jockey's.
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