Real Peugeot PX10, how can you tell beyond decals ?
 

Hi Guys:
This is my first post since finding this site 5 months ago.
I bought this bike from Ebay a week or so ago.
Vintage Peugeot PX10 Bicycle Upright 5 Speed Reynolds 531 Frame Carbon Fork | eBay

It was presented as starting life a PX10 but as you can tell it was modified into a city bike. Obvious changes were removing 2nd crank wheel and derailleur, replacing in carbon fork, adding city seat, and also painting it up as a PX10. It has stickers that look right for 1970-73. I have not really rode it but what I did it rides very nice. I have a 1980 PKN10 and it felt comparable, given a am not really that experienced a biker, I just thought this was a deal and there could be something there. For all I know, it could have been the change between tubulars and none tubulars of the PKN10.

I am assuming that there is not really a reason to fake everything about this but the paint and stickers hide some things. Here are some of the particulars:
S/N 244255 stamped into BB shell
69-70? Or to 73 (derailleur)
Fancy Nervex lugs
Repainted with Type II decals
531 Diagonal Decal
Carbon fork, not original, no markings
Peugeot upright riding seat, aftermarket seat post
ATAX stem and aftermarket upright handlebars
Mafac "Racer" brakes front, also associated hanger, aluminum spacer to allow for extra long pads
Mafac "Racer" brakes back, also associated hanger, expanded pads
Mafac plastic brake levers (to be replaced with Mafac 429 black Delrin)
Thumb shifter "Sun Race"
Rear Derailleur Simplex Criterium Red plugs (marked Prestige)
Stronglight 49D single crank with #52 chainguard #45 teeth and 170mm arms
Lyotard 45CA dural pedals, Verma Toe clips and Christophe leather
Hubs "Normandie" front
Hubs "Sunshine" "5445 Z" back
Simplex skewers (front and back)
Mavic "Marque" 700C tubular rims
Servizio Course tubular tires

Assorted Campagnolo, Hurst wire guides


Questions:
1) What have it got? Am thinking 69-73 PX10 but that is really only based on SN (not perfect), and some of the parts (which could have been moved) and decals (which are new)
2) Is it possible to find a PX10 reynolds 531 fork?
3) Since it was changed, I was thinking about bringing the resultant bike to a modern state: Campy ergo brifters, 99-104/5 BIS Stronglight triple cranks, modern wheets, etc. Like something you might see if the original owner have upgraded with 80-90s acceptable parts.
4) Or maybe I just go all original, but not sure I want to do that….

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493994http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493995http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493996

Looks to me like a 1973 px10.
There are a lot of little indicators that show it's not a cheaper repainted frame. Chromed rear stays, simplex dropouts, nervex lugs, etc.

That carbon fork repainted is hilarious, kind of like a really big mullet. PX10 replacement forks aren't something that comes up unless you are supremely lucky. Since the original headset is gone, the simplest solution would be to put a decent tange replacement chrome fork in there. Its likely been reamed and is not french anymore.

That crankset wasn't original. It should be a 93. They aren't too expensive to buy on ebay, but they are doubles obviously. You can go 38t for the inner. 93 triple would look ok if you want triple, as would TA; frankly so would VO or other neo frenchie style new cranks. In fact, you could pretty much just tart it up with VO stuff and be fine.

Brifters???? really? IMO they'd look like hell. Set it up with bar ends if you don't want DT shifters.

There's a significant dent on that seat tube, but you could actually roll that out. (or a good bike shop could)

Based on the lugs, paint, stays, dropouts, that does look to be a PX-10. That said, the carbon fork looks absolutely horrible and way out of proportion to the rest of the frame. Good luck restoring it to its former glory. The fork is definitely going to be the difficult part to get right.

I would roughly date it '74.

Since the fork has been replaced, I would check the front of the frame for ripples and/or cracks (if you have not already).

I saw that on ebay,. It's an interesting bike. You could do some interesting things with it.

The fork looks kinda odd but maybe rides great. Give it a chance. Otherwise a fork isn't that difficult to find. What frame size is this bike? I might have a fork that would work.

The Stronglight 49 crank is cool. They can be used with TA chainrings. So you can do a traditional 42/52 or wide range 30/50, whatever.

A Brooks saddle would be a nice touch. Maybe aero brake levers. Lots of possibilities.

It's easy to tell it's not a '74. The Reynolds decal was moved to the down tube beginning that year.

Brifters would be as out of place as that saddle with its backwards clamp and that hideous fork

I wouldn't trust those plastic brake levers with my liife.

It's been repainted so decal position probably isn't an accurate indicator of year.

Is that a dent in the seat tube? Never mind, I see it was mentioned in a previous post.

Nice start. Looks like very nice paint. I saw that on eBay and wondered about front end frame damage. No brifters please.

Good point about the cranks, I did not know that.
I had thought it was more to late sixties based on six digit sn, and so I thought 49 d might be original.
Love the mullet comment. The dent might make sense to do early, get that and patch paint sorted. Then get real handle bars and just ride it. I am looking forward to comparing it to the PKN10.
thanks

I know about the possibilities, am looking forward to exploring it. I believe it is a 62 cm frame c-c. I have three Ideales (42?, 80, 90R) and a Middlemore I have been restoring to try out. Handlebars and brakes, then ride....

Very good point. I will do so. That might explain why it has the fork anyway. The seller was consignment so I know no history. Maybe crash repair, maybe ex racer with a parts bin?

Thanks for all your replies!
So the consensus of everyone is to forgo the sn# of six digits and think 73ish?

Welcome! Brifters are about function. A lot of C&V'rs have very passionate feelings against them & carbon so factor that in. A carbon fork on a nice steel frame with brifters & good wheels can make a very nice ride - light, fast & comfortable. If it were mine I'd have to strip the fork and expose the black fiber, then clear it - only so it wasn't trying to mimic the fork you don't have. Given It's not original anyway you have a clear path to make it any way you want or enjoy it as is. Nice find and glad you shared!

I had my 87 Peugeot Tri built with carbon & STIs for a long time - rode great, 20 1/2 lbs as pictured with saddle & pedals.

http://mmaygraphics.com/Transfer3/normandy6.jpg

Thanks for your comment. That path was one I am considering. I had not thought about the fork idea, brilliant. The paint of the fork is not of the same quality as the rest of the bike.
Thanks for your reply

Since the OP's bike has been modified so much, some of the key dating points are gone (this is why I say roughly dated).

One item to look at is the RD cable stop braze-on.

Earlier PXs predominantly had a small cable stop and later (predominantly mid 70s) they were larger (combination cable stop & cable housing hold down).

I also give credit to the PO for blending in the carbon fork with the rest of the PX10 look/style.

I guess it's possible that it's an earlier PX10 with early 70s decals. Kinda hard to tell if it's a repaint from photos.

Regardless, you may as well keep the 49 cranks, especially since chainrings are available and it can be rebuilt to triple or compact double or whatever you want.

I don't know about that. I've got nothing against either carbon or brifters. It's strictly a matter of appropriateness for the bike. Pepperoni pizza and chocolate ice cream might both taste good, but you wouldn't put a scoop of ice cream on your pizza, would you? Then again, it's up to the owner, and I'm no one to talk since I'm putting together a PX10 with lots of modern stuff on it myself. No brifters though... ;)

I will try and attach another photo that shows more of what is going on at the rear. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=494041http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=494042http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=494043In the Ebay listing the seller did mention that he thought the fork should be repainted with exactly the same look as what the original fork would have looked like.

Does the attached photo give any information regarding what the carbon fork modifier did and whether it is undo-able?http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=494058 Some of the top of the fork parts look modern.

Any of your Ideale saddles which are in good shape would be even more appropriate for the PX10 than any Brooks, since the Ideales are French, and of the same quality as Brooks seats. I ride an Ideale 90 and an Ideale 80 on two of my most used bikes (a third uses a Brooks Swift), and my Ideale 90 was originally the seat on a PX10 that got trashed.

I'd venture a guess he didn't do anything. The headset is clearly not original. It's almost certainly a standard ISO 1" headset, but those are typically close enough to fit if you're not too OCD. Sometimes you'd have to reface the fork crown, but obviously this is a replacement fork so that wouldn't be needed, and I didn't think before typing.

If you were to find an old french fork, you would need a new headset, as the threads are different. Also, that original ATAX stem is probably a pretty loose fit, as frenchie stems are 22.0 vs 22.2 mm.

The braze-on on your bike is the larger version I tried to describe.

Some PX10s were supplied with Brooks Professionals.

If it's a real PX-10 weigh it. Should weigh in right at 21lbs. Only the Italians had lighter steel bikes than that back then.

It probably doesn't handle to well with that modern fork. Peugeot forks come up frequently, if you particular about it being Reynolds it may take longer.

Aesthetics aside the fork is much too short. It's for a 700C wheel. The original was long enough to accommodate 27 inch wheels and fenders. Just look at how close the tire is to the fork crown. The brake pads won't go that high and be at the correct angle. A short fork decreases head tube angle. I'd look for a fork that is as close to the original length and rake as I could find in order to have a PX10 that rides like a PX10.

With that seat and clinchers? I think not! My 1974 advertised 21.5 PX10LE weighed 23 pounds after being converted to clinchers when I bought it new.