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Asian Serial Number Guide

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Asian Serial Number Guide

Old 11-07-21, 05:40 PM
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Limited info, trying to ID a recent find

Hi Folks, I recently pick up a free-bee and am trying to ID her. It's a woman's bike, with downtube shifters that I believe to be from the 70's. The only badging on it is on the Headset and says "Premium" and a made in japan on the forks. It's got a Shimano Thunderbird front derailleur and Shimano Eagle on the rear
S/N on the BB is S310 049
I haven't been on the sight long enough to post pictures yet so this is the best I can do. I'm trying to decide if I should restore it or just use it as a donor.
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Old 11-08-21, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Minidb
Hi Folks, I recently pick up a free-bee and am trying to ID her. It's a woman's bike, with downtube shifters that I believe to be from the 70's. The only badging on it is on the Headset and says "Premium" and a made in japan on the forks. It's got a Shimano Thunderbird front derailleur and Shimano Eagle on the rear
S/N on the BB is S310 049
I haven't been on the sight long enough to post pictures yet so this is the best I can do. I'm trying to decide if I should restore it or just use it as a donor.
The Shimano Eagle and Thunderbird are typically entry level fare for the early and mid-1970s. The only photos currently in your gallery album are of a blue and white Eddyy Merckx.
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Old 11-08-21, 09:31 AM
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Thanks T-Mar, I hadn't realized that I could set up albums. I've added a few photos of the find as well as the EM
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Old 11-10-21, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Minidb
Thanks T-Mar, I hadn't realized that I could set up albums. I've added a few photos of the find as well as the EM
I don't recognize the Premium brand but it would appear to be a a brand for a department, hardware or similar chain store. The components are all entry level and steel. This bicycle is probably 30+ lbs. However. it lacks the typical brake safety levers, stem mounted shift levers and pie plate chain guard of most entry level, chain store bicycles. This suggests it is pre-boom, from the late 1960s or very early 1970s. Still, this doesn't increase it's value or collectability. This would have been a sub-$100 CDN bicycle in it's day and I don't see much value, especially considering that it's a step through frame style and appears to have a bent fork. Pre Covid-19, in my region, this would have been on of those free to $20, garage sale bicycles. Photo assist...
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Old 11-15-21, 02:22 AM
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Just picked up a Schwinn Impact #GS023606. If the Giant serial number system continued into the 90s then this appears to be from the 19th fortnight of 1990.
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Old 11-15-21, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by degan
Just picked up a Schwinn Impact #GS023606. If the Giant serial number system continued into the 90s then this appears to be from the 19th fortnight of 1990.
Thank-you for posting. The Giant s/n format didn't change in the early 1990s. That's late enough in the calendar year that I would suspect a 1991 model. Regardless, it's easy enough to distinguish between the two model years based on the frame features. The 1990 model still had the derailleur cables running along the down tube, while the 1991 model had them running along the top tube. There were two versions of the Impact in 1990, an MOS version ( SunTour XCM/XCT, $350 US MSRP) and a Pro MOS version (Shimsno 300 LX, $399 US MSRP). In 1991, only the Pro MOS version was offered, though the MSRP had increased to $425 US. Enjoy your new acquisition.
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Old 11-15-21, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Thank-you for posting. The Giant s/n format didn't change in the early 1990s. That's late enough in the calendar year that I would suspect a 1991 model. Regardless, it's easy enough to distinguish between the two model years based on the frame features. The 1990 model still had the derailleur cables running along the down tube, while the 1991 model had them running along the top tube. There were two versions of the Impact in 1990, an MOS version ( SunTour XCM/XCT, $350 US MSRP) and a Pro MOS version (Shimsno 300 LX, $399 US MSRP). In 1991, only the Pro MOS version was offered, though the MSRP had increased to $425 US. Enjoy your new acquisition.
Mine is a non-Pro and has shift cables on the downtube, thus a 1990. Also found it in the 1990 catalog.
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Old 11-22-21, 12:24 PM
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Did Kawamura made a 1982 mountain bike for Cycle Pro?

Cycle Pro Ram KB14082
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Old 11-23-21, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Santuri32
Did Kawamura made a 1982 mountain bike for Cycle Pro?

Cycle Pro Ram KB14082
The earliest confirmed model year that I have for a Cycle Pro ATB is 1983. While the serial number is 1982 calendar year and appears low, I'm not postiive that there isn't some additional cronological stratifier built into the number string. Consequently, I can't rule out the possibility of a 1983 model manufactured in late 1982. Are there any clues provided by the components, eitther the models and/or date codes?
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Old 11-23-21, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
The earliest confirmed model year that I have for a Cycle Pro ATB is 1983. While the serial number is 1982 calendar year and appears low, I'm not postiive that there isn't some additional cronological stratifier built into the number string. Consequently, I can't rule out the possibility of a 1983 model manufactured in late 1982. Are there any clues provided by the components, eitther the models and/or date codes?
The crank set is stamped 2 GC (March 1982?). I do believe is an '83 model year bike, but with a built date of February 1982 U believe all any additional info the serial could add is 29 days more on that month. So why would they build such an early frame for the next year? Other companies sometime began making their current year bikes much later than that, Fisher and its 1985 Excalibur (July-85?), 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport XT and SC (February and March 1984). So it was a company's decision but, I would consider this a defective production strategy.

The bike is apparently set for Suntour's dirt group Tech derailleurs, those were made mid 1982, so that could have been the set back.

I appreciate your comments
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Old 11-23-21, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
The earliest confirmed model year that I have for a Cycle Pro ATB is 1983. While the serial number is 1982 calendar year and appears low, I'm not postiive that there isn't some additional cronological stratifier built into the number string. Consequently, I can't rule out the possibility of a 1983 model manufactured in late 1982. Are there any clues provided by the components, eitther the models and/or date codes?
Here are some Ram bikes, I found three years all early 80, here's the earlier style and two BB serial suggesting February and march 1983 construction. Both of these bikes were made in Japan by Kawamura suggesting higher end than the Taiwan built 1983 Skyline. So perhaps was their first and top line MTB/ATB and perhaps was available in mid 1982 as a very early 1983 model bike. Yet I think these should be considered with the Alpina Sport and Stumpjumper one of the first production MTBs. Apart from the first 500 October 1981 Stumpjumpers and the 18 or so January 1982 Schwinn Prototype Mountain Bike frames, this predates all 1982 Stumpjumpers and the earliest March 1982 Alpina Sport I have seen. Anyone with a catalog?





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Old 11-24-21, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Santuri32
The crank set is stamped 2 GC (March 1982?). I do believe is an '83 model year bike, but with a built date of February 1982 U believe all any additional info the serial could add is 29 days more on that month. So why would they build such an early frame for the next year? Other companies sometime began making their current year bikes much later than that, Fisher and its 1985 Excalibur (July-85?), 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport XT and SC (February and March 1984). So it was a company's decision but, I would consider this a defective production strategy.

The bike is apparently set for Suntour's dirt group Tech derailleurs, those were made mid 1982, so that could have been the set back.

I appreciate your comments
I don't see where you are getting a February 1982 date for the frame? As for the crankset, I'm not convinced that the 2 and GC represent a date code. Of the dozens of Sugino GT cranksets that I've seen over the years, I can't recall one that didn't have the GC embossing, though the embossed number varied. Also, these characters appear to permanently incorporated into the tooling die itself. If it's a date code, it needs to be easily changed. This is why most dates are typically stamped into the components. Sometimes, they'll use a replaceable die insert but then you'll typically be able to see the outline of the insert on the component.

I can appreciate the variation in introduction dates for some of the smaller manufacturers but the mass volume manufacturers typically start buildng the new models around September. Generally, the first of the new models are ready for the autumn trade shows. Autumn is used to build up inventory and allow time for trans-oceanic shipping and processing though the importer's distribution channels. The aim is ensure that the shipments of new models are in stores for the lucrative Christmas season.

Of course, if bicycle manufacturers are building in September, the component manufacturers have to start producing their new product prior to that. It's not unusual to see mid-year dates on components that represent the upcoming model year. So, while the Tech components were introduced for the 1983 model year, you'll find some mid-1982 date codes.

While I believe the subject frame to be a 1983 model, I don't see any evidence to suggest it was built in early 1982 and not late 1982.
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Old 11-24-21, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Santuri32
Here are some Ram bikes, I found three years all early 80, here's the earlier style and two BB serial suggesting February and march 1983 construction. Both of these bikes were made in Japan by Kawamura suggesting higher end than the Taiwan built 1983 Skyline. So perhaps was their first and top line MTB/ATB and perhaps was available in mid 1982 as a very early 1983 model bike. Yet I think these should be considered with the Alpina Sport and Stumpjumper one of the first production MTBs. Apart from the first 500 October 1981 Stumpjumpers and the 18 or so January 1982 Schwinn Prototype Mountain Bike frames, this predates all 1982 Stumpjumpers and the earliest March 1982 Alpina Sport I have seen. Anyone with a catalog?
Again, I'm not seeing how you figure February and March for those serical numbers? All the evidence suggests that the B and the C represent the 1982 and 1983 calendar years, respectively.

The few Skyline models I've seen from this period were manufactured by Dodsun of Taiwan, so I'd agree that the Kawamura models are higher grade.

I know that a lot of people consider the Stumpjumperer to be the first production ATB but the numbers were so small that I don't award it that distinction. My choice is the Univega Alpina Sport. Its sales were more than 1/2 of the total ATB sales in the USA for 1982.

A lot of people dismiss the 1981 Schwinn King-Sting and Sidewinder as adult BMX bicycles. Yet, when you look at the other early ATBs, they were borrowing equipment from road and MX. One could argue that with their dirt background, upsizing a BMX bicycle and adding derailleurs and wider gearing, made a lot of sense, at least until the the Japanese starting manufacturing dedicated ATB components. Schwinn did miss the mark with the sidepull brakes and double crankset but then it was a new, fast evolving discipline. There were a lot of poor choices. I guess it all depends your personal criteria but I include these Schwinn models with the early ATBs. They beat the Univega to market by a year, but their sales weren't high enough to dislodge the Univega Alpina Sport as my choice for 1st Production ATB.
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Old 11-24-21, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Again, I'm not seeing how you figure February and March for those serical numbers? All the evidence suggests that the B and the C represent the 1982 and 1983 calendar years, respectively.

The few Skyline models I've seen from this period were manufactured by Dodsun of Taiwan, so I'd agree that the Kawamura models are higher grade.

I know that a lot of people consider the Stumpjumperer to be the first production ATB but the numbers were so small that I don't award it that distinction. My choice is the Univega Alpina Sport. Its sales were more than 1/2 of the total ATB sales in the USA for 1982.

A lot of people dismiss the 1981 Schwinn King-Sting and Sidewinder as adult BMX bicycles. Yet, when you look at the other early ATBs, they were borrowing equipment from road and MX. One could argue that with their dirt background, upsizing a BMX bicycle and adding derailleurs and wider gearing, made a lot of sense, at least until the the Japanese starting manufacturing dedicated ATB components. Schwinn did miss the mark with the sidepull brakes and double crankset but then it was a new, fast evolving discipline. There were a lot of poor choices. I guess it all depends your personal criteria but I include these Schwinn models with the early ATBs. They beat the Univega to market by a year, but their sales weren't high enough to dislodge the Univega Alpina Sport as my choice for 1st Production ATB.
I was guessing the bikes were 1982 with no year code and just month code. It was just a guess and B and C coding for year solve the issue of why a later serial number for the earlier bike. The crank I got from the Trek site that codes several components.

Regarding first Stumpjumper and Univega Mountain Bikes, I suspect that records were not kept that well. I see about 50 Stumpjumpers or more for every Alpina Sport I have ever seen. I believe there's confusion when explaining the 1982 Stumpjumpers. Books and interviews vary in the numbers of bikes produced, from 100, 125, etc. I keep records of these and the production of T1Js was around 241 and some refer to those as the 1981 or the 1982 bikes, when all Toyo frames were 1982 model year bikes. Perhaps there were even 500 T1Js, we will find our eventually. However, based on serial numbers alone and using just the TIG frames T1J to T2F these suggest that at least 1,694 TIG 1982 Stumpjumpers were made.

Then for Univega mine is the earliest I've seen and is a low Toyo as well, 1982 March number 74. But I have records of just three serial adding 159 for March 1982 and 268 for August 1982 or 427 bikes. I am missing a lot of info but just taking into consideration the frequency in which I see these bikes and the serials I have gathered I looks that 3000 Stumpjumpers and 500 Univegas were made in 1982 and not as reported.

Defining early Mountain Bikes is difficult as well, even defining production is. A bike with multiple gears, diamond frame, fat tires, and strong brakes would include the Schwinns' King Sting and SideWinders, but also Murray Bajas. And factory production requires to specify a number. So Univega imported 3000 bikes from Toyo in 1982 becoming the first production mountain bike to go over 2000 bikes. But man-factory Ritchey together with MountainBikes were the first to produce over 500 bikes in one year. Then factoring in Murray Bajas (1000s?), Lawhill pro Cruisers in 1979 (100s).
So perhaps (these numbers are just approximations from the top of my head):
1. 1979 Lawhill Pro Cruiser was the first ATB bike to be Nationally produced in over 100? bikes
2. 1981 Ritchey Mountain Bikes were the first Nationally produced ATBs in over 500? bikes
3. 1981 Murray Baja and Schwinn King Sting were the first ATBs to be nationally produced in over 1000? bikes by a large national factory
4. 1982 Stumpjumpers and Univegas were the first ATBs to be imported in numbers over 1000 bikes. Making Toyo the first exporter of ATBs to produced over 3000 bikes in one year.
I think what was more important was their contribution to ATB/MTB acceptance and promotion, with that:

1. Schwinn+Marin rider with klunkers
2. Breezer with first new frame
3. Ritchey with first light diamond frame
4. Specialized with its large promotion

Each of those built upon and in a way (build or exposure) improved on the previous, I would never say copied.

But I believe you are completely correct about the Ram being a 1983, I looked at early advertisement on fat Tire flyer and Stumpjumper S & S, Sundancer and Cyclo Pro (unspecified model) were about the first bikes being advertised by the Village Peddler in 1982.

Last edited by Santuri32; 11-24-21 at 01:31 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 11-30-21, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Santuri32
...Regarding first Stumpjumper and Univega Mountain Bikes, I suspect that records were not kept that well. I see about 50 Stumpjumpers or more for every Alpina Sport I have ever seen. I believe there's confusion when explaining the 1982 Stumpjumpers. Books and interviews vary in the numbers of bikes produced, from 100, 125, etc. I keep records of these and the production of T1Js was around 241 and some refer to those as the 1981 or the 1982 bikes, when all Toyo frames were 1982 model year bikes. Perhaps there were even 500 T1Js, we will find our eventually. However, based on serial numbers alone and using just the TIG frames T1J to T2F these suggest that at least 1,694 TIG 1982 Stumpjumpers were made.

Then for Univega mine is the earliest I've seen and is a low Toyo as well, 1982 March number 74. But I have records of just three serial adding 159 for March 1982 and 268 for August 1982 or 427 bikes. I am missing a lot of info but just taking into consideration the frequency in which I see these bikes and the serials I have gathered I looks that 3000 Stumpjumpers and 500 Univegas were made in 1982 and not as reported.

Defining early Mountain Bikes is difficult as well, even defining production is. A bike with multiple gears, diamond frame, fat tires, and strong brakes would include the Schwinns' King Sting and SideWinders, but also Murray Bajas. And factory production requires to specify a number. So Univega imported 3000 bikes from Toyo in 1982 becoming the first production mountain bike to go over 2000 bikes. But man-factory Ritchey together with MountainBikes were the first to produce over 500 bikes in one year. Then factoring in Murray Bajas (1000s?), Lawhill pro Cruisers in 1979 (100s)....
I believe that the reason you see more early Stumpjumpers than Alpina Sports is due to the perception of the status of the two bicycles and not the volume sold. The general consumer considers the Stumpjumper to be the first production ATB. Even within the hardcore ATB fraternity, few know the historical signifigance of the Alpina Sports. Also, Specialized is now one of the top 3 brands worldwide, while Univega is pretty much forgotten, outside of the C&V fraternity. These factors combine to make owners more likely to keep and maintain a Stumpjumper. Consequently, there is a far higher percentage of survivors, while vast majority of the Alpina Sports were probably diposed of, a long time ago. A poor condition Stumpjumper will still find it's way onto craigslist or Ebay, while a poor condition Alpina Sports will find it's way to local landfill or recycling centre.

There are pitfalls involved in trying to estimate production volumes of a model using extant serial numbers. Contract manufacturers like Toyo had several clients and you don't know the sizes of their production lots. There may have been several production lots for multiple clients between the two serial numbers that you have for a specific brand and model of bicycle. You shouldn't assume that they are all from the same production lot.

Until there is a consensus on what constitutes an ATB and a production bicycle, there are going to be a lot of different opinions on the first production ATB. Personally, I like to categorize manufacturers as larege/mass production, small production and limited production, but I doubt that we could even reach agreement on that.
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Old 11-30-21, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101
Another one, Its a 1984 Diamondback Mean Streak. Serial number does not follow N(1) or Fairly. Marked made in Japan. Paint scheme matches 1983 version. Derailleur date codes are July 1983.

I am used to National made bikes having the serial on the lower head tube. But it does follow National layout for February 1984. Faux bi-plane fork, missing original bull moose bars. Putting Fat Franks on it, just for kicks. Ape hangers and Next stem have been removed.





Dang why canít I get this lucky to come across one of these!!!
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Old 12-01-21, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
I believe that the reason you see more early Stumpjumpers than Alpina Sports is due to the perception of the status of the two bicycles and not the volume sold. The general consumer considers the Stumpjumper to be the first production ATB. Even within the hardcore ATB fraternity, few know the historical signifigance of the Alpina Sports. Also, Specialized is now one of the top 3 brands worldwide, while Univega is pretty much forgotten, outside of the C&V fraternity. These factors combine to make owners more likely to keep and maintain a Stumpjumper. Consequently, there is a far higher percentage of survivors, while vast majority of the Alpina Sports were probably diposed of, a long time ago. A poor condition Stumpjumper will still find it's way onto craigslist or Ebay, while a poor condition Alpina Sports will find it's way to local landfill or recycling centre.

There are pitfalls involved in trying to estimate production volumes of a model using extant serial numbers. Contract manufacturers like Toyo had several clients and you don't know the sizes of their production lots. There may have been several production lots for multiple clients between the two serial numbers that you have for a specific brand and model of bicycle. You shouldn't assume that they are all from the same production lot.


Until there is a consensus on what constitutes an ATB and a production bicycle, there are going to be a lot of different opinions on the first production ATB. Personally, I like to categorize manufacturers as larege/mass production, small production and limited production, but I doubt that we could even reach agreement on that.
Hi T-Mar,

Those are valid points for not seeing more Alpina Sports, lack of correct information is one...an example being https://mmbhof.org/portfolio/1982-fi...under-1000-00/. I wrote them twice between 6 -10 years ago so they could correct their info about 1982 Alpina Sport and not Alpina Pro and is still unchanged. So anyone using their reference would get it wrong, but still I believe what I said. Do you have other Japanese Toyo bikes with serial T1Jnnnn, T2Cnnnnn, T2Dnnnnn, T2Fnnnnn apart from Stumpjumpers? I have not seen other bikes following those same serials
?
Thanks

I found the following, although the timelines are not accurate for Ritchey/Rocky Mountain (1982-3) and not 1978 or 1980 and perhaps maybe for others. On the Toyo Kuwahara bikes the frames for 1982 are T2Mnnnn or one digit less than for Stumpjumpers that year. I don't know anything about these bikes and I'm curious about the T2Es bikes as I have never seen but T2Cs, Ds, and Fs. I wonder how many bikes that factory could crank in those years.



Last edited by Santuri32; 12-01-21 at 04:50 PM. Reason: found some onfo to add
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Old 12-08-21, 12:00 PM
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Hi. I bought a Yokota frameset from my local co-op recently, kind of neat but not a lot of info online. I think it's from '85, serial number is NE51403. I posted a few photos in a gallery album here, as I don't have enough posts to add them here.
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Old 12-10-21, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ElGenerale
Hi. I bought a Yokota frameset from my local co-op recently, kind of neat but not a lot of info online. I think it's from '85, serial number is NE51403. I posted a few photos in a gallery album here, as I don't have enough posts to add them here.
The presence of a traditional fork crown does point to mid-1980s, before uni-crown forks gained popularity. 1985 is a possibility but I can't make a definitive statement as Yokota rarely surface on the forum, making it difficult to collect and analyze their serial number format. The format could fit other sources but according to a 1988 road test, Yokota was a actually a manufacturer and were, in fact, Japan's 2nd largest manufacturer, behind Bridgestone. Their claimed annual production at the time was 900,000 bicycles.

Perhaps the best method to try to narrow the date would be to remove the fork and check the steerer tube, as it is likely a stock Tange fork with an alpha-numeric date code.
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Old 12-10-21, 07:01 PM
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T-Mar, thank you. Thankfully the fork matches the frame, so report back after I get it off and look for a marking on the steer tube.
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Old 12-25-21, 03:10 PM
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Mystery Frame Probably Japanese

Hi all,
Christmas day got in posession of a vintage frame with all its parts just completely disassembled.

found on Facebook marketplace for AUD$80. I saw the frame in pictures and was interested. Upon reading the post I realised it was a bargain. It seemed to have some good quality bits with it and the purchase price you could probably make back on the headset alone.
my recent spending habits on bicycles and frames had me on the edge of acceptance of the hobby with my partner so I hatched a plan to get this one.I (in my head at least) craftily had my old man pick the bike up from the fellow selling it since it was close to him. And I simply instructed my parents to act like they just happened to find the add and thought I would like it to fix up as a Christmas present, and that's how I got around the partner side eye haha
on to the frame:
The fellow bought the frame and had it built up by spokesman bicycles in Canberra, Australia as near as I can tell late 70's to early 80's. These guys did custom make frames back in the day however the guy told me he bought a frame they had on the shelf as it was higher end than what we could afford them to custom make for him for the price.
So it is an off the shelf frame, and it's practically bare. Since I am a lurker not a poster I cannot post pictures yet but maybe I can create an album?

Anyway looking through posts until now I seem to come across a strange serial format, I am however reasonably confident it's a Japanese frame, unless there were European makers that match this format and happened to use tange champion #2 tubing.

The serial is: MAH1049
Located smack bang in the middle of the BB bottom.
There were zero decals on the frame except a single one, tange champion #2. This is original as far as the seller was aware since he was the original buyer of the frame all those years ago.
Trying to understand potential formats from what I have read so far my guess is the following:
M may represent a brand prefix, maybeA could be the year code potentially, either 1980 or 81.
H could be month or 'week of' for instance H could be August or weeks 14-15.
With 1049 likely being the sequential frame build number.
M could also represent a year perhaps, as could the H. M would be harder to figure out but H could represent 1978.
Most likely it's an 80 or 81 build but this could be cleared up with further detail.
I don't have a fork to help identify since he had a fall at some stage and damaged the fork and replaced it with a very heavy. Unicrown for some silly reason.

Details of the frame that might help:
Cable guides are on top of the BB, tells me it's late 70's to early 80's.
There are no DT bosses, just the locator for the campagnolo clamp on DT shifters it has.
Another mystery that could help is the fact it has Shimano EF forged and chromed rear dropouts which may indicate it could be a mid to mid high range frame of some sorts.
Other indicators are top tube brake cable guide braze ons.
The lugs aren't ornate, my only description is your typical pointed pug design but the curve to the point looks slightly elongated which points me to thinking it's better than average in quality.
The BB lugs are straight miters.
seat stays are nothing fancy, just straight and flat, no indentations or sculpted or anything.

I think that's all I can come up with in terms of helping understand what the frame could be.

List of parts that the owner had installed by the bike shop were basically the best he could afford at the time but I don't have exact details yet on what they really are because I haven't had a chance to really go through them:
Sugino? Super mighty cranksCampagnolo RdSuntour mc-II (will have to check this one) FDSuntour supurbe pro rim brakesSuntour supurbe (pro?) Brake leversCampagnolo clamp on DT shiftersDura ace ax 26.8mm seat postDura ace ax stemDura ace ex headset bearingsCampagnolo bottom bracket bearingsCinelli barsCampagnolog record hubs and skewers laced to Ambrosio rims.

That's all I've got, it could be easiest to find someone who knows more about the bicycle shop from back in the day who may know where they got their off the shelf frames from around this time.

​​​​​​The dura ace parts further cement this being an early 80's frame in my mind however will need to investigate more on the parts the bike came with to date them and know what I've actually got.

Will try creating an album for anyone (T-Mar basically) to take a look.
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Old 12-25-21, 07:27 PM
  #497  
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To add to the above description, on the Australian forum there is one single mention of a Japanese framed spokesman that seems to align in serial number, see below.

Quote: I have a very nice spokesman bike with a Japanese frame, but no manufacturers name. The serial number is mcc3269

So very small sample size but it's another one starting with M and two alphas after that. For theirs it's C and C so perhaps theirs is a 1982 or 83 built in March perhaps.
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Old 12-27-21, 07:00 AM
  #498  
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Originally Posted by bmp776
Hi all,
Christmas day got in posession of a vintage frame with all its parts just completely disassembled.....
Welcome to the forums. I can tell you right now that it is not from the 1970s, as Shimano introduced their EF dropouts for the 1980 model year. Tange #2 combined with the absence of shift lever and bottle bosses suggests early 1980s. With this in mind, the highest probability interpretations for the serial number suggests a 1981-1982 model. The lack of mitres suggests a relatvely high volume production frame.

One thing that you can do to corroborate the age, is to check the fork's steerer tube for stampings. Given the age, era and cost concessions, it likely has a standard Tange built fork, in which case there should be a two character alpha-numeric date code, format year.month (i.e. 1.D would be 1981 April).
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Old 12-27-21, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Welcome to the forums. I can tell you right now that it is not from the 1970s, as Shimano introduced their EF dropouts for the 1980 model year. Tange #2 combined with the absence of shift lever and bottle bosses suggests early 1980s. With this in mind, the highest probability interpretations for the serial number suggests a 1981-1982 model. The lack of mitres suggests a relatvely high volume production frame.

One thing that you can do to corroborate the age, is to check the fork's steerer tube for stampings. Given the age, era and cost concessions, it likely has a standard Tange built fork, in which case there should be a two character alpha-numeric date code, format year.month (i.e. 1.D would be 1981 April).
Thanks for the reply T-Mar!
I can tell you it does have bottle bosses, not sure what you mean by lack of miters I just meant the BB lugs are just straight miters, no curved or ornate design.
As stated it doesn't have the original fork with it. Just one he replaced it with some years after purchase when he bent it in a crash. Sucks as I'll want to source an old tange fork as the one he replaced it with feels as though it weighs as much as the frame itself! Will turn my $80 bargain find into double or triple that just getting my hands on a period matching fork 😭. Admittedly not much money but I was trying to get away with spending very little on this one.
Figured it would be an 81-82 model, just wish I could figure out who made it!!
I would like to refurbish the frame and include a set of decals but without knowing who made the frame or what it was branded as it doesn't feel right slapping on a set of decals that aren't a true reflection of its origins.
The frame itself was painted a straight metallic gold with the single tange champion no.2 sticker on the seat tube.
The cycle shop it was purchased from, Spokesman cycles used to either make custom frames themselves or commissioned a local frame builder to make their customers frames as required. This info is a bit cloudy.
Taking info from the Australian cycling forum, Spokesman cycles was owned by John Abeni who owned the Abeni/Europa bike brands apparently and he also purchased the rights to the Pegasus brand.
I have seen two bikes for sale over recent months with spokesman branded frames with decals, I have seen Abeni, Pegasus and Europa bikes over the years.
there is then a post stating it was their understanding that Keith Davis built the frames for Spokesman cycles, which were branded Pegasus in the early years and later called them Davis bikes.

That's all the info I currently have. Will see how much I can find out about the Pegasus, Abeni and Europa brands, all Australian and probably little known outside Australia from my understand. I should really get some photos up. I stalled the other day as I needed my computer to upload photos to an album and ran out of time for that. Will do this morning I guess so you can get a closer look.

Any idea on the possible frame manufacturer T-Mar? I think most of my intrigue is stemming from the fact it doesn't appear to match any currently known format for Japanese frame manufacturers but feel fairly confident it is a Japanese manufactured frame given its likely age.
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Old 12-27-21, 02:32 PM
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Serial number for my DB Viper

Hi,

I recently came to own a DB Viper, serial # F5C76274.....anyone who can help me to decipher this? from reading, it seems to be from Taiwan and 1985, I think....would love some insight, thanks!
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