The '61 Bianchi Speciallisima Gets Phat
02-05-16, 10:39 AM
#26
feros ferio
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Played on St. Sheldon's calculator. Looks like 46/44 chainrings x 12-23 8-speed cassette x SA hub wide range gives
- Three ranges of gears, corresponding to SA hub 1 (-25%), 2 (direct), 3 (+33%)
- In range 2 (SA hub 2nd gear), goes from GI 50 to GI 100 with steps of 3-4 GI and no duplicate gears. This seems like a good everyday range, and it is the IGH's direct drive gear.
- In range 1 (SA hub 1st gear), goes from GI 37 to GI 75 with steps of 2.5-3.0 GI and no dupes. This seems good for steep or loaded climbs.
- In range 3 (SA hub 3rd gear), goes from GI 66 to GI 133, with steps of 5-6 GI, no dupes. This would be for tailwinds.
- I doubt I'd shift gears on the SA hub very often - more like "entering hills, shift to 1", pant, pant, pant for 20 minutes, then "leaving hills, shift to 2".
- Most of the time, all shifts would be on the derailleurs. Steps between adjacent gears would be about half the size of most steps using same cassette and a 53/39.
Perhaps traditional half step used wide range freewheel, because that's the only way to get a reasonably large range from lowest to highest. With the SA hub, that would not be a constraint.
- Three ranges of gears, corresponding to SA hub 1 (-25%), 2 (direct), 3 (+33%)
- In range 2 (SA hub 2nd gear), goes from GI 50 to GI 100 with steps of 3-4 GI and no duplicate gears. This seems like a good everyday range, and it is the IGH's direct drive gear.
- In range 1 (SA hub 1st gear), goes from GI 37 to GI 75 with steps of 2.5-3.0 GI and no dupes. This seems good for steep or loaded climbs.
- In range 3 (SA hub 3rd gear), goes from GI 66 to GI 133, with steps of 5-6 GI, no dupes. This would be for tailwinds.
- I doubt I'd shift gears on the SA hub very often - more like "entering hills, shift to 1", pant, pant, pant for 20 minutes, then "leaving hills, shift to 2".
- Most of the time, all shifts would be on the derailleurs. Steps between adjacent gears would be about half the size of most steps using same cassette and a 53/39.
Perhaps traditional half step used wide range freewheel, because that's the only way to get a reasonably large range from lowest to highest. With the SA hub, that would not be a constraint.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
02-05-16, 10:40 AM
#27
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This looks like a really fun project. Keep us up to date with more photos, please.
02-05-16, 10:53 AM
#28
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Cool project; it'll be fun seeing it come together.
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
02-05-16, 12:24 PM
#29
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Good point. 28T large cog gets me 31 GI lowest. I am not sure if the Grand Sport RD can do 28T but some quick reading suggests it can, so that might be a good choice.
02-05-16, 01:00 PM
#30
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@jyl, give some serious thought to adding a triplizer instead of an IGH.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
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Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
02-05-16, 01:03 PM
#31
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IMHO, the coolest possible thing would be to rechrome it.
I kind of like that original blue color though, if it is original. What's going on with the red/orange patches though?
Bianchi trivia for those that don't know: Celeste was originally a light blue, and this is the color that the early Bianchis were painted. In Italian celeste quite literally means sky blue. Anyway, the clear coats yellowed, turning the blue into the seafoam green color we now know as celeste. People liked it, and they decided to go with that color on purpose.
02-05-16, 01:12 PM
#32
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Really neat project! I've been wanting to try a 650B build as well, so I'll be interested to follow along. I'm sort of in agreement with nlerner about the potential pitfalls of an IGH build. I'd be more tempted to get a long cage (would one of the refab'd SOMA NR long cages work on a gran sport derailleur?) and a wide-range FW and keep everything a bit simpler and lighter. I know you've said weight isn't such as concern, but once the bike gets loaded with all those other add-ons, you don't want that 30-35 pounds to start creeping up toward 40 pounds in your hilly environs. Or what about (sorry purists) triplizing the 151bcd cranks?: Triplizing a Campy Double Crankset
Sticking with drop bars or something more upright?
Sticking with drop bars or something more upright?
02-05-16, 01:17 PM
#33
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@jyl, give some serious thought to adding a triplizer instead of an IGH.
For me, the only time I like the idea of an IGH is when I'm determined to run a single ring up front.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
02-05-16, 01:22 PM
#34
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Edit: Whoops, looks like Tom and others beat me to it. Not that 48 gears doesn't sound awesome...
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Last edited by himespau; 02-05-16 at 01:27 PM.
02-05-16, 02:29 PM
#35
Senior Member
Not for the very old school 151 chainrings... Popping it off and bolting on a Stronglight 49 crankset (etc) would be infinitely easier if you wanted to go triple.
I'm reasonably sure that the SOMA cage extender would work with a Gran Sport RD. They claim it does anyway.
I'm reasonably sure that the SOMA cage extender would work with a Gran Sport RD. They claim it does anyway.
02-05-16, 05:59 PM
#36
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Sometimes I agree with this, but I've become un-purist. Since this will be heavily modded / hot-rodded rather than restored to vintage correct, I vote for repaint, but do a good job. A bad paint job is always regrettable.
IMHO, the coolest possible thing would be to rechrome it.
I kind of like that original blue color though, if it is original. What's going on with the red/orange patches though?
Bianchi trivia for those that don't know: Celeste was originally a light blue, and this is the color that the early Bianchis were painted. In Italian celeste quite literally means sky blue. Anyway, the clear coats yellowed, turning the blue into the seafoam green color we now know as celeste. People liked it, and they decided to go with that color on purpose.
IMHO, the coolest possible thing would be to rechrome it.
I kind of like that original blue color though, if it is original. What's going on with the red/orange patches though?
Bianchi trivia for those that don't know: Celeste was originally a light blue, and this is the color that the early Bianchis were painted. In Italian celeste quite literally means sky blue. Anyway, the clear coats yellowed, turning the blue into the seafoam green color we now know as celeste. People liked it, and they decided to go with that color on purpose.
I like the blue color, and Celeste would be incorrect for a US market Specialissima in 1961. But the pull of sea foam green is strong.
Rechroming would be terribly expensive, so it isn't in the cards now.
Last edited by jyl; 02-06-16 at 08:39 PM.
02-06-16, 12:00 PM
#37
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02-06-16, 12:25 PM
#38
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02-06-16, 08:50 PM
#39
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Anyone know where to get Sun CR-18 rims in 584 mm (650B)?
I cannot find these online. Anywhere.
I cannot find these online. Anywhere.
02-06-16, 09:06 PM
#40
Keener splendor
Their website only lists the inferno series in 27.5" (mountain rims) but nothing in 650B (road rims): Road | SUNringlé
Looks like a good project, btw.
02-07-16, 09:02 AM
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The first run of the 650b CR18 rims we're seriously fubar--oversized be a few mm, making it nearly impossible to mount tires. I had thought they discontinued them after that debacle.
02-07-16, 10:17 AM
#42
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V.O. Diagonale $69ea 550gm
Compass GB $98ea 468gm
I've built them all.
Those all fit the bill. You building them?
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02-07-16, 10:55 AM
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I have 650B wheels with Velocity Synergy rims and Velocity A23 rims. But it looks like availability on those is spotty these days. Pacenti also did a PL23 that isn't availably any longer, but does show up on the re-sale market.
02-07-16, 06:06 PM
#44
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Yes, self build. I like building and don't do it enough. Went to VC and looked at some examples, probably getting the VOs. BTW, heard negative feedback on Pacenti 650B rim's durability.
02-07-16, 06:09 PM
#45
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Really neat project! I've been wanting to try a 650B build as well, so I'll be interested to follow along. I'm sort of in agreement with nlerner about the potential pitfalls of an IGH build. I'd be more tempted to get a long cage (would one of the refab'd SOMA NR long cages work on a gran sport derailleur?) and a wide-range FW and keep everything a bit simpler and lighter. I know you've said weight isn't such as concern, but once the bike gets loaded with all those other add-ons, you don't want that 30-35 pounds to start creeping up toward 40 pounds in your hilly environs. Or what about (sorry purists) triplizing the 151bcd cranks?: Triplizing a Campy Double Crankset
Sticking with drop bars or something more upright?
Sticking with drop bars or something more upright?
02-07-16, 06:19 PM
#46
Senior Member
@jyl - I highly encourage to stop by Sugar Wheel Works & speak to Jude or Jason. They have built thousands of wheels and will tell you how various rims build up. They can get you what you want in regard to rims. Very low pressure with excellent service.
I vote for Velocity A23 rims. Very elegant. I have used Dyads on most of my 27" to 700c wheel conversions and like the brushed silver vs high shine.
@gugie has great ideas and does sound & artistic work. I can't wait to see how this works out.
I vote for Velocity A23 rims. Very elegant. I have used Dyads on most of my 27" to 700c wheel conversions and like the brushed silver vs high shine.
@gugie has great ideas and does sound & artistic work. I can't wait to see how this works out.
Last edited by Velocivixen; 02-07-16 at 06:22 PM.
02-07-16, 08:53 PM
#47
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Checked a spoke calculator. SA CS-RF3, VO Diagonale, 36H, 3 cross. Right spokes 269.5, left spokes 270.9, 60% tension ratio which would allow 100 kgf right, 60 kgf left. I guess I'd buy 270 and 272 mm spokes. Maybe DT Competition 2.0/1.8/2.0 silver. Brass nipples. I'll check another calculator but just using this. . .
This seems like a pretty straightforward build. I don't see a need to get an asymmetric rim (more expensive, not quite the look I want - because of the chrome socks and lugs on this bike, I'll polish the components as much as I can, and finish it of with high shine rims.)
I could use DT Revolution spokes 2.0/1.5/2.0 on the left side to even out the tension a bit.
Front hub will probably be Shutter Precision. Just because I like the shiny finish (superficial much?).
(Edit) @Velocivixen, thanks for the pointer to Sugar. They have a great reputation. The thing is, I'm unlikely to buy the components from them (I usually go for discounts) and I try not to use up the time of a shop if I'm not going to spend money there.
This seems like a pretty straightforward build. I don't see a need to get an asymmetric rim (more expensive, not quite the look I want - because of the chrome socks and lugs on this bike, I'll polish the components as much as I can, and finish it of with high shine rims.)
I could use DT Revolution spokes 2.0/1.5/2.0 on the left side to even out the tension a bit.
Front hub will probably be Shutter Precision. Just because I like the shiny finish (superficial much?).
(Edit) @Velocivixen, thanks for the pointer to Sugar. They have a great reputation. The thing is, I'm unlikely to buy the components from them (I usually go for discounts) and I try not to use up the time of a shop if I'm not going to spend money there.
Last edited by jyl; 02-07-16 at 11:00 PM.
02-07-16, 10:23 PM
#48
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The VO's build up just fine, they're on my Weigelized Competition, look good, and have worked well on two trips. I weight 205, and carry 25-30 lbs when credit card touring. Hetres fit loose on them, you have to work them seated, and I can't see anyone needing tire levers to put them on or take them off. I got a pair of 32 hole Pacenti SL23's on sale for my International, lighter, and feels pretty stiff. Hetres are hard to mount on the SL23's, and although I pride myself on not needing tire levers to put tires on or take them off, I need them to remove the tire, and damn near raise blisters putting them on. The Pacentis have an extremely narrow braking area.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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02-07-16, 10:28 PM
#49
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Checked a spoke calculator. SA CS-RF3, VO Diagonale, 36H, 3 cross. Right spokes 269.5, left spokes 270.9, 60% tension ratio which would allow 100 kgf right, 60 kgf left. I guess I'd buy 270 and 272 mm spokes. Maybe DT Competition 2.0/1.8/2.0 silver. Brass nipples. I'll check another calculator but just using this. . .
This seems like a pretty straightforward build. I don't see a need to get an asymmetric rim (more expensive, not quite the look I want - because of the chrome socks and lugs on this bike, I'll polish the components as much as I can, and finish it of with high shine rims.)
I could use DT Revolution spokes 2.0/1.5/2.0 on the left side to even out the tension a bit.
Front hub will probably be Shutter Precision. Just because I like the shiny finish (superficial much?).
This seems like a pretty straightforward build. I don't see a need to get an asymmetric rim (more expensive, not quite the look I want - because of the chrome socks and lugs on this bike, I'll polish the components as much as I can, and finish it of with high shine rims.)
I could use DT Revolution spokes 2.0/1.5/2.0 on the left side to even out the tension a bit.
Front hub will probably be Shutter Precision. Just because I like the shiny finish (superficial much?).
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
02-07-16, 10:29 PM
#50
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@jyl - I highly encourage to stop by Sugar Wheel Works & speak to Jude or Jason. They have built thousands of wheels and will tell you how various rims build up. They can get you what you want in regard to rims. Very low pressure with excellent service.
I vote for Velocity A23 rims. Very elegant. I have used Dyads on most of my 27" to 700c wheel conversions and like the brushed silver vs high shine.
@gugie has great ideas and does sound & artistic work. I can't wait to see how this works out.
I vote for Velocity A23 rims. Very elegant. I have used Dyads on most of my 27" to 700c wheel conversions and like the brushed silver vs high shine.
@gugie has great ideas and does sound & artistic work. I can't wait to see how this works out.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.