The future of C&V
 

I often think, do we only appreciate these years due to our upbringing and will most of these bikes fade into the sunset. A newer generation just see these bikes as OLD?

Or, will someday C&V becoming very mainstream like so many things do. TV shows, a supplement at the Barrett Jackson auction :D etc.

Some 60's stuff, 70's and 80's are golden and special from my understanding. And I never really thought about, but when someone sees I have multiple bikes, I find myself talking about history and comparing some of these grail bikes out there to the Charger and Challenger era so they "get it".

Another thought I have, will C Record surpass Record and Super Record as the hot item? Was a shorter run and had quality and unique items in the group....

C Record has already surpassed Super Record in terms of price. By a lot.

Probably half or more of the buyers that purchase a refurbished bike from me are younger than the bike. These include grad students in all fields of study, over qualified food service personnel, and urban adventurers/workers.

I'm not sure it'll ever get big as muscle car status but they'll always be collectors for anything. Not so sure about modern mainstream bikes from the big companies being how massed produced things are but the small builders will always bring loyal fans. But will my son/daughter see anything of interest in my bikes or just see them as bikes. My kids raced BMX and each have a few bikes of their own and with me having bikes, books, movies, etc... dealing with bikes it may keep a general interest and know they're more then just "bikes". I hope at least with the two frames I built they'll keep them in the family seeing their names on that downtube will be something special to them.

I mean it could be the same as me like ten years ago. I had no interest in road bikes but always had nicer bikes and raced in some form or another. A change in riding and interest got me into vintage road bikes and the same could go for anyone else. Something you might see or remember from a certain time may trip that trigger and spark up interests into vintage bikes. Much like I used to be heavy in Hip Hop music in my high school days but upon listening deeper I enjoyed the samples they used and looked further into it and discovered the musicians they sampled music from and got into older soul and R&B because of that.

Same goes for the many stories in this forum you hear about of a friends relative who's got an old bike in their basement/garage. They give it to someone else and hand a story about the bike and it strikes a chord with the lucky recipient and they get stung by the vintage bee and it's all downhill from there. Lol!

Great question. I think oddjob has it right. There are a lot of younger buyers of these bikes who appreciate the workmanship of these bikes.

Keep 'em nice and in 40 more years they will be valuable to someone.
There is too much fun in such a simple machine, done artistically - so to speak.
How big a market? How valuable? Good questions.
I don't want to answer so = a pass to my adult son, who luckily (?) is my same height and build.

To me the key to the C&V future is the present. Bike clubs, bike federations, heroic rides, commuting by bike, specialty retailers, and yes triathlon bikes; these are all things that promote an active cycling culture today. All of these riders, if they make cycling part of their lifestyle, will eventually have cash leftover from the paycheck and start wondering what it is like to do their hundred miler on a 50 year old bike. Their love of cycling and general curiosity ought to guarantee it. Its one of the main reasons I ride a C&V at every possible group ride opportunity.

A few factors contributing to continuing C&V value.
1. People who grew up in the 60s-80s who liked to cycle, now have the money to buy their grails.
2. These bikes were thrown out in the late 1990s and early 2000s as aluminum/carbon came on the market, making high-end steel seem obsolete. Lots of supply is now gone because of this.
3. Young people with little money, and wanting a single speed/fixie - buy these old frames because they are more easily convertible (and cheaper) than modern bikes. Their friends, seeing that they have a "cool green Bianchi!", end up also wanting a cool character bike, and therefore end up desiring a nice C&V bike.

The above reasons mean that mid/old-age folks who grew up on these bikes desire C&V, and many "young folks" in their teens and early 20s, also desire C&V (heck, THEIR grail may also be a 1980s celeste Bianchi that they never even grew up with, but their friend has one and it's the coolest bike ever!), meaning there won't be a demographic drop out in 20 years for buyers of these bikes (compare to collectors of sewing machines and typewriters, who are all in their 80s or dead).

I've followed lots of other collectibles (e.g. comics) and in almost every circumstance, everyone in the hobby is graying and wondering who will buy their comics in 20 years? That concern it seems will not be an issue at all with quality vintage steel.

I'll let you know in about 3 years :thumb:

What I see is that there was a pretty huge leap from the 1950's balloon tire bikes to the 1970's 10-speeds. Perhaps also the 1950's and 1960's Raleigh 3-speeds.

There is a resurgence of an interest in the cruisers, but I think the old 1940's and 1950's cruisers are still somewhat ignored. The 3-speeds do make great city bikes, and are often dirt cheap.

Then you get to the basic 10-speeds. The QUALITY 10-speeds were somewhat rare anyway. But, for the last 50 years from the late 50's to today, there hasn't been a fundamental shift in cycling. Rather a slow accumulation of minor changes. That means my 47 yr old 10-speed is still very relevant. But, I've also chosen to slowly upgrade it over the years for a number of reasons. I've ridden the old "original" bikes, and they do feel a bit clunkier.

The much more common High-Ten 10-speeds? Vintage, I suppose, but not a lot of magic there.

However, over time, one starts to get a huge accumulation of changes.

• 1 1/8 bars/stem
• better brakes.
• Aero brakes
• Indexed shifting.
• More gears
• More relaxed gearing (in part due to more gears).
• Clinchers vs sewups.
• More rigid rims (less truing, in theory)
• Lighter & new lighter materials.
• More ergonomic handlebars.
• Stronger/more rigid frame designs.
• Cassettes
• internal cable routing
• water bottle bosses (my bike doesn't have them).

All the little changes just add up to big differences.

If I was picking out a road bike for a newbie, I'd probably do a cutoff of "brifters", or the mid 90's, and let the older bikes fall into obscurity.

They can ride the older stuff, but there really is no need.

Personally I think the friction shifters work just as well as indexed shifters, but that may not be for everyone.

One point, however, is that the majority of the changes came with accessories. So, once you get into frames with bosses, one could do well with modern parts on a 30-40 year old frame.

That may now be changing with all the high-end CF bikes. But, time will tell whether they will age gracefully, or not.

Estate Sales .. You Can't take it WithYou..

All of my C&V bikes were built before my birth and I respect the craftsmanship and beauty of them all. I enjoy fixing them up and making improvements to them when needed. I know plenty of people my age and younger into C&V so there definitely is a future.

This caught my attention. Had not really tied that into the equation but like many hobbies that do go mainstream, there is always that next cool level of doing something so it does make good sense.

For the (C) record :-) I agree on the prices. Regarding C record and grail bikes, I guess I did not factor in that although there is more super record and standard record, the actual bikes seem to be higher value in most cases for the 70s when there were less built and more were directly hand made by the builder. C Record does top the mid? 80's IMO if your bike was built then. I wonder if the future cool kids will be putting C Record on newer high end bikes or customs as the preference. It does have some futuristic qualities.

I'm wondering when will the old rigid frame mountain bikes increase in value...?
Specialized hard rock for sale
http://images.craigslist.org/00F0F_c...Qj_600x450.jpg

And why can't you get buried with your bike?

Cremation might be a problem. Any magnesium bikes out there?

I feel like someone starts this thread every year or so...

Anyway, half of my bikes are older than me. As time passes, it seems like appreciation for older things only increases, so the only thing I'd be worried about is parts becoming increasingly scarce as people buy them up.

I consider myself pretty interested in the financial aspects of hobbying. I spent over 10 years following comic collector forums. There is an existential thread every few weeks on those such forums. Sure, high end stuff is priced at all-time highs, but kids aren't buying comics any more. Go to a comic store - everyone in the store is middle-aged men. We don't see it here, but there are many collectible communities that know they are going obsolete.

Read this Wall Street Journal article if you're interested about the demographic effect on the economic aspects of collecting.
Who's Going to Want Grandma's Hoard Of Antique Gnomes? - WSJ

It was posted to the comic forums back in 2006. The concerns in the article seemed too relevant to that hobby. The concern simply doesn't exist with C&V bikes. People in their 40s are trying to get a 1988 celeste Bianchi Superleggera. And so is that 22 year old college kid, who "only" rides a Japanese hi-ten frame. The largest volume collector in Toronto is probably not even 30 yet. So it's so weird. We have 2 generations (the current, and the future) of folks interested in the same 1980s bikes. ---> Prices will go up.

Just too many of them. And they get drowned out with all the trash.

yeah i wonder if in 20-30 years people will see a Colnago made in the 70/80/90s and see it the way i see bikes from the 10/20/30/40's ... interesting, respectable, but not really ridable, more of a museum-piece than a form or transport/fun/excersize

its starting, in japan especially, and kids on ****** have been driving up the price of old MTB GT triple triangles...

I think that interest in C&V bike is growing and will continue to grow. There are now Facebook pages dedicated to C&V. A local group trying to get going here in the Atlanta area. If it's happening in this otherwise backwards state It must be growing in interest. Look at the popularity of L'Eroica.[h=3][/h]Will people be able to make a living off this industry like with vintage cars? Some are, Velo Orange etc. I think some folks are being very successful reselling on ebay and the like.

My son is a good example. (don't quote me on that, for any more than this context)....

He considers the idea of a "grail bike" to be materialistic, but balanced by the fact it's not in a landfill.
He thinks people who buy high-tech carbon bikes are stupid unless they are using it as a tool in their job.
He considers C&V to be well-built and pragmatic bikes that do pretty much what new bikes can do, without wasting the planet, money, time, or energy.
He thinks fixed gear is good because it uses less parts, is easy, simple, and pragmatic.
He think the appreciation for the craftsmanship is fine, but as an art object, he finds a bike absurd.

His idea of a good bike is one that gets you where you need to go, safely, and without cost.
His present ride is a fat-tire single-speed so he can ride it year round and his dog can keep up.
He sees dumpsters as dangers to the earth, is OK with steel bikes if they can be recycled.
He wouldn't be caught dead in bike kit. In an urban setting, he prefers a skateboard.

I used to think he was one of those odd tree-hugging kids. Turns out there are millions. Good for them.

Amen to the tree-hugger kids. :) I think single speeds will eventually die out though, once people understand the strength of the mighty 6-speed rear wheel. All the problems started when people got greedy, & wanted 7 speeds, then 8, then 9, etc. ;) And you can compete for your C-Record all you want, just give me my Suntour. :D

I don't know if there will ever be much of a market for vintage MTBs but I kind of like it that way. Two of my best Craigslist finds were vintage mtbs that I now use as almost daily riders, a 1988 stumpjumper comp and a 1992 trek 950. They're great bikes and I paid $125 for each of those bikes. I just hope the market doesn't figure this out.

+1

Here in Portland you can find at least one place with barbers, young guys who will give you an old fashioned straight-edge razor shave. Old is new here.

Figured he'd ride a Centurion...?