Can you tell me anything about this Pinarello?
 

I'm not usually a C&V guy, but when I saw this bike and had to have it. I bought it from a friend who has had it for a few years in the condition shown here. He guessed it was a late 70's Treviso. I've searched the old threads and gained the beginnings of some background knowledge, including the fact that most Pinarellos that people think are Trevisos aren't and that these things are apparently pretty tough to pin down to a specific year and model. On top of that, this one appears to be covered in misdirection, from the non-original groupset (Superbe Pro, including the headset) to replacement decals.

Anyway, I'm not trying to establish value, just looking for any information and opinions.

Pics are probably the best I can do to tell you what I know about it.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1716/2...f349c2d2_b.jpg

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As you may be able to see from the photos, the "chrome" on the right chainstay seems to be some kind of sticker layered over the paint.

The seat post diameter is 27.2. The bike weighs just under 23 pounds as shown, but the steel 27" Mavic wheels along with the freewheel and tires accounts for almost 9 pounds of that weight. Dare I hope this indicates Columbus SL tubing?

Are you sure those wheels are steel? They look like Al rims to me. A magnet would tell either way.

The frame tubing sticker would imply Columbus SL. An easy way to check is to inspect the bottom of the fork steerer tube for spiraled splines. They are often hard to see without a bit of cleanup.

The derailleur cable routing under the bottom bracket would indicate early- to mid-80's, as would the sticker with some Tour wins from 1981. Maybe a 1982 model?

The eyelets on the fork and rear dropouts would be plausible for late 70s at least, don't know when those were dropped. Did the Italia model come with eyelets? That had Columbus SL for the three main tubes. The Columbus decals on your fork don't match, though.

Here's a 1981 catalog page of that model: (link)
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/pinarello/6.jpg

I think you're right about the wheels. My magnet stuck to the braking surface, but not to the side facing the hub, so it's probably just latching on to the tire bead. The rims are Mavic Module E. I just noticed that the skewers and the dust caps on the hubs say "Specialized". The saddle is also a Specialized, so maybe this points to a donor bike for the components.

The bottom of the steerer tube is pretty dirty, but I can feel splines there. I'll need to remove the front brake to clean it up better.

I didn't want to read too much into the Vincitrice decal because it looks like a replacement (fairly thick plastic-ish trim) and I wasn't sure it belonged on this frame. If it does, that would obviously be a good clue.

I have an '82 Italia out in the garage. I don't think the bike shown is one. I'll have to check, but I believe it would have Gippiemme (sp) dropouts, without eyelets. Fork crown and stays would not have the GPT engraving, and the group set would be Campagnolo Gran Sport, all pantographed. Frame set is also Columbus Tretubi.

The helical ridges can be easily seen in the 3rd photo of the OP's original post. So, the fork is definitely at least SL.

The odd features of the bicycle are the long rear dropouts and eyelets. None of the bicycles in the referenced catalog (which is actually from 1982) have these features, nor do any in the 1985 catalog. This seems contradictory to other features, such as dual water bottle bosses and pump peg, which would date it post 1983 based on the catalogue. Of, course, these feature could have been added. However, in 1984 (and possibly 1983) Pinarello marketed a full Columbus SL model called the Gran Turismo. This model seems to have been intended as a fast,one day tourer, as it used the standard racing geometry except for a 20 mm longer wheelbase. This would explain the long dropouts and eyelets. It also had dual bottle bosses and a pump peg and would have featured modern style embossing. Pending further evidence, a 1983/1984 Gran Turismo would appear to be the best candidate, as it explains the era contradictory features.

Probably a stick-on chainstay protector.

T-Mar is the authority here, but as a Pinarello fan I'll just second that the 1010/A dropouts with fender eyelets are the clue to the model. It's difficult to tell from a picture, but the geo does also look more relaxed than a typical Pinarello from this period.

Thanks, T-Mar! You seem to have known something that Google didn't. Apart from this discussion, I don't see any evidence in the Google search results of a Pinarello Gran Turismo. I guess it wasn't a big success.

FYI, I have come across three more bikes that appear to be the same model:

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...andonneur.html

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ring-bike.html

1983? Pinarello Treviso. Full Super Record. 50cm. 20.7 Lbs! $$$ Photo by velocejoe | Photobucket

It looks like the stick-on chainstay protector was original.

Am I right in thinking the fact that mine has a Superbe headset most likely means that mine was originally purchased as a frameset?

According to Velobase and the markings on the back, my front derailleur was made in 1982 while the rear derailleur and crank were made in 1984. I suppose that's only indirect evidence but it's at least consistent with this being an '84.

Yes, your bicycle was almost certainly built (or rebuilt) from a frame. The first bicycle in the linked posts appears to be quite close to OEM component specs, as it has primarily Gran Sport components with the Rally rear derailleur. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the triple crankset option.

Pretty sweet bike with high quality alloy wheels. That rear derailleur is trade bait if looking for a campy RD.

What is the reach on the brakes? If long rather than short, this suggests more of a randonneur than a racing bike.

I had an '85 and it was nearly identical except it had chromed chainstays. Same decals and frame details.

On closer examination, I think maybe only the crankset and shifters (and maybe the brakes?) are Superbe Pro. The rear derailleur looks like a Superbe II and the front derailleur is a Superbe. Are those still interesting?

I bought this bike with the intention of riding it. I've never used downtube shifters before -- when they were common all the bikes I could afford had stem shifters. I was originally thinking I'd buy a modern Campy group (maybe Athena?) to put on this, but these components are pretty nice looking, more attractive than almost all current stuff, so I'm at least going to ride it and see what I think. If I do update the components, I'll likely sell these since they have no particular affinity to the bike other than age.

The reach on the brake calipers is pretty short. They're at max extension to fit these wheels -- ~50mm. I tried a 700c wheel on the front and it's not going to work with these brakes. Does that indicate the frame is built for a relatively long reach brake? FWIW, I have to deflate the rear tire to get it out of the dropouts and as it presses against the chainstay bridge.

The spoke tension is fairly low, especially on the front wheel. Is that normal for rims of this age? The wheels have 36 spokes, so it's probably not a problem but they need trued anyway so I'd like to raise the tension a bit while I'm at it if the rims will tolerate it.

Most of the old bikes I've worked on had issues with spoke tension. Odd that the bike has 27 inch wheels. I'll bet it was built around 700c wheels but this frame was built with what the original owner had. With 700c, you'd have to go with "long reach" brakes (47-57mm). That would be cool since you can run a bit fatter tire, say a 700 x 28c.

I would not worry about the mishmash of parts but if you want to get rid of them, they are useful trade bait and/or you can sell them. There is a pretty active market on bike forums for old parts.

The Pinarello Gran Turismo was designed for 700C wheels. The OEM brakset was Campagnolo Gran Sport long reach which would give about 5mm more pad adjustment and accommodate the 4mm smaller BSD of 700C. Typically, bicycle intended for use with fenders use longer reach brakes.

You can get more tire clearance from the stay bridge by dialing back the dropout adjusters, as they are set for maximum forward wheel position. This will give more chain wrap and a longer gap, which will slow down the shifting a bit and may require slightly more overshift, but shouldn't be a big issue unless the shifting is indexed.

If the spoke tension on the front feels low, it almost certainly is low. the deviation from normal has to be fairly large to be detected by hand.

Do you have a catalog or do you have this much information about obscure Pinarello models stored in your head? Either way, I very much appreciate it.

I wondered about the original wheel size because it just didn't seem right how hard it is to remove the rear wheel. It has plenty of clearance from the bridge when mounted, even as far forward in the dropout as it currently is, but it won't clear the dropout with the tire inflated. The tire is nominally 27x1-1/4" but it only measures at about 28mm.


Yeah, these are flexing with just a light squeeze. I haven't measured but I'd guess they are around 50 kgf. What's a typical tension range for an 80's alloy rim?

I've got a lot of first hand experience and a lot of literature. I went back and dug out the '84 specs. Unfortunately BF isn't allowing me to load pg. 2 for some reason.

Maybe if I try a separate post for pg. 2.... Nope, still only displays Pg 1 for some reason.

Thanks again. It's very cool to see some of the original documentation.

What's on page 2?

Back in the 80s Many Italian steel frames were shipped painted nicely, and left the retail shop to do

the final threading, facing and reaming, so the factory cut the expense of doing all that in house ..

and Retail dealer was who did the installing the component choices of the customer..

What's sometimes confusing is that there was a Treviso model, but as Pinarello is based at the city of Treviso, decals on other models also read "Pinarello Treviso Italia".

Mainly component specs.

OK. You've already shared the details on that above, so I won't ask for any more of your time. I'm very grateful for your help. This has really been more than I expected to be able to find out.

Been lurking and saw this post. I have a mid 1980's Pinarello that I haven't ridden since 1990. Long story, used to be a long distance runner in NYC late 70's and early 80's but got injured in the 83 NYC Marathon and bought it. Rode thousands of miles on it, the Gimbels Run for one in Westchester etc... Sure some of you guys know about that...

Got married in 89, baby in 90, moved in 90 and again in 2002. Have not ridden it since 1990!

Grupo is a combo of Super Record, Record, and Grand Sport with Mavic pedals and rims.

Will post pics soon.

Post pics on the C&V appraisal board: Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries

I'm not well-versed on Pinarello values, but there seems to be quite a bit of variability depending on condition, components and tubing.