Unfortunately, I think the Pacenti rim-brake 650B offerings are all gone. Not seeing any more on the site. :(

It would appear that the demand for 650b rim brake rims has crested, at least for the time being, with sales being driven by disc brakes now. Hopefully not too many companies stop making them. Next time there's a big sale I'm stocking up.

That would be cool! One drawback of folks posting their inventory online is that it's easy to read too much into the numbers. :o

Once I built and rode a pair of the SL23s, I quickly secured another two (no longer at the $40 sale price) for when these wear out. They're really fantastic.

We've got 650b Dyad's on the way, and 650b A23's in stock with more planned for the future!

Sweet!

As long as Rivendell and Compass and VO are preaching their gospels, there will be enough people buying 650b to keep some rims available.

Oi..!

I wouldn't mind having some of those nicer 650b tyres in 650a sizes.

Yeah, I'm a English fetishist. What with living here and all that...

Is he the chap who did that big rant about Brooks saddles.?
Something about them cutting off the blood supply, so you end up losing your legs or something.?
It was something like that, but with added ranting...

All kidding aside, I find that 650b is the optimal size available to convert vintage, steel 700c/27' bikes to fendered, wide tire "all road" bikes in most frame sizes. No kool-aid there, and the more options, the better, IMO.

But if we're to be honest, if 650b is a gospel, there are lots of gospels out there:

1. The Gospel according to St. Carbonfiber
2. The Gospel according to St. Aluminium
3. The Velominati, which has it's own rules and even has a prayer
4. The Gospel according to St. Sheldon
5. The Gospel according to The Peterson

When it gets down to it, we all find our own way to ride. The Church of the Self-Propelled 2 Wheels should have a big tent. What constitutes the Ideal Ride is different for everyone.

If you were a hard core English fetishist, you'd be more concerned with EA1 than EA3!

But as for EA3 (AKA 650a) rumor has it that some pretty nice 650a tires are available in Japan, where this size is popular.

Could be an oppotunity for an entrepreneurial minded Brit. Importing 650 A tires and rims to Britain. Like coals to Newcastle.

In France some 650B tires and rims are also imported from Japan and Taiwan. The exceptions being Hutchinsons and Schwalbe tiresand Ambrosio rims.

Good question. I'm not sure, but thinking outloud here (or really thinking while typing, and is that dangerous?), a larger wheel definitely absorbs bumps better, all things being equal. Moulton showed that a suspension system can compensate for that. I test rode one of those old bikes, and if I could close my eyes for a while, I suspect I could be convinced it was a large-wheel bike. What is the cost of suspension? Is it expensiver? Trickier to engineer? Or do old habits just die hard and refuse to accept the idea of adults riding small wheels except for special reasons such as needing to fold the bike?

I have two Moultons - one with 17" wheels (ISO 369) and one with 20" wheels (ISO 406). They are the most comfortable, best handling bikes I own. Among the fastest, too. They are not twitchy. The Moulton suspension is pretty light, but the bikes weigh about 21 and 23 lbs. I think a lot of that has to do with the space frames - the tubes are small but there are lots of them, and lots of silver brazed joints to tie them together.

As bikes with suspension will, they bob when climbing out of the saddle. It's best to sit and spin up hills. Other than that, they have no handling vices or faults. They're totally steady on fast descents.

The neat thing about suspension is that is separates comfort and handling from tire size and width. That is, I can run narrower, high pressure tires for performance and still be comfortable and have a smooth ride. That was Moulton's idea. If you want to be smooth and comfortable on a 650b randonneur bike, then you run wide tires. And that's fine, too. But there are other options. Even with long wheelbases and chainstays, the Moultons are more compact because of the smaller wheels. I never feel fast on fat tires, though I always appreciate the nice ride.

I think Evelyn Stevens was running 19 mm tubular tires when she set her hour record recently. Guess she didn't get the memo about 650b fatties!

It's funny you should say that. I have a scabby Lenton and I also volunteer at a local 'Bicycle Kitchen' place.
They tend to chuck out anything steel rims, so I often have a rummage in the cellar, trying to find anything which looks like EA1. If it has 'Dunlop' on it, so much the better.
So far, I've found a 27x1 1/4 Dunlop Special Lightweight rim and a 36 hole Rigida in the EA1 size.
If I find anything nice like that, I slip them a few quid as a donation and take the bits home. Everyone's a winner.!

Japanese EA3 tyres sounds interesting though. I've heard of the GB Renard, at 28-590.

I must add that I am more of a peasant than a clubman, so interesting EA3 tyres may be more my thing in the longer term...

I used to have two Moulton F-frame bikes, the ones with ISO 349 wheels, and still have one (which I mean to sell soon). They are comfortable, but I do find them twitchy. I don't think he got the fork geometry quite right on these.

But on the subject of tires versus suspension, it's interesting to note that Raleigh opted for plush tires for the RSW-16, the model they introduced in 1965 to compete with Moulton's F-frame line. 16 x 2 tires that look remarkably like Hetres:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ew/1966ral.jpg

Twitchy-ness goes away with a front Load . (As on my Bi-Fri& Brompton)

My brother who is 6' 7" asked me to help him find and build a 650B-esque commuter/tourer/all-rounder. I talked him in to sticking with 700c, and finding a frame that could handle 35mm-or so tires, with room for fenders. (Nothing romantic about wanting to keep yourself and your drive train dry and mud-free.) I found him a Bianchi Randonneur from 1983 that seems like it will fit the bill nicely. Him riding 650b wheels would look like me riding a Moulton.

I snipped your quote to save space. I think you make some valid points re wheel size relative to rider height. Which is interesting, but I'd like to reiterate: Where's the Box of Crap? You have time to type 15 paragraphs, but not five seconds to update us on your latest expected ship date. Odd. America is waiting.

I was trying to be funny... a bigger wheel diameter reduces shocks because it takes longer to roll over an obstruction. So that's a design reason for more sizes - that you should choose the biggest wheel that carries the tire width you want on a frame that gives you good fit and handling, and you could probably figure out an optimum wheel diameter for any paricular person's particular style of bike. The design reason for fewer sizes is that standardization is convenient. Similarly for suspension, you have the same kinds of pros and cons... comfort and traction on one side, complexity and weight and inefficiency on the opposing side.

But why did 650B (ERTRO 584), basically unavailable until recently, win out over 700D (ERTRO 587), which briefly appeared on GT mountain bikes in the 80's?

Compass make some nice tyres in 650B:

https://www.compasscycle.com/product...ts/tires/650b/

I'm looking very closely at their tyres in 26" for my Surly LHT

I bet you think this song is about you...Don'tchya, Don'tchya ,don'tcha...

I have considered 650b on my commuter. the reason is that the 700's that I have make the bike a bit too tall

This is why I don't understand the whole 650b thing either. If you need smaller wheels, why not just use 26"? They are slightly smaller than 650B, which should make them easier to use to fit a smaller frame / rider. And there are TONS of tire options.

It seems like it just muddies the water, and will result in fewer overall tire choices, since the tire manufacturers have to try to predict what types will sell in what sizes.

[MENTION=339610]Darth Lefty[/MENTION], it's probably some random happenstance as to why 650b emerged above more likely sizes, and maybe there were some corporate wars over it. But it doesn't matter much. 584 is as good as 587 or 590 unless you are already invested in tires or rims in those sizes. I have nothing in any of those sizes (except for 590 on my three speed) so I'm not going into 650b any time soon. I plan to see if my 700c by 35mm tires work well on my Raleigh International. Probably.