mstateglfr 

Yup, crowdsourcing opinions on this one.

It looks like I will be riding my 912 a lot this season. As in 10x more than in previous years. Ive never felt the need to change the downtube shifting, but between how much it will be used and how it will be used(a lot of road riding with hills vs paved rail to trail) I am really thinking STIs will be more convenient.

Its all 600 with a tricolor RD and 8spd narrow range cassette.
So I am thinking 8spd STIs and a new cassette with some wider range will be perfect.


- $100(euro sites) and go new with some Claris STIs? They no longer have that tab for shifting and are paddles just like higher level STIs.
- $110ish and go used with 600tricolor STIs which are 25ish years old off ebay? These for example
- $82 and go outside of Shimano by tossing on some Microshift R8s on the bike? I used their bar end shifters for a couple rides...they clicked and the bike shifted...so they worked, but thats basically all the real world experience I have with Microshift.




I dont need 10/11speed stuff, 8 will be enough even with the wider range cassette, and I am not looking to make this a $400 project.
Any opinions on the 3 options I listed above? Any options which I didnt mention?
I havent used 600 STIs before, so those who have and have also used current gen entry level STIs...whats the noticable difference in quality etc?

Tim_Iowa

The new Claris 8-speed STIs actually feel pretty decent. I haven't ridden with them but I've built up a bunch of bikes at the shop that spec them. They have a solid feel (not flexy or plasticky) and seem to tune up easily.

I'd try those (or the Microshift R8s, which I have no experience with) before I'd pay >$100 for some 25-year-old STIs. Those tricolor STIs were pretty durable, but I'd want to pay less and buy them from someone I trusted that took good care of them.

Personally, I prefer bar-ends to STIs.

mstateglfr 

Good lord, I am slipping and about to do down the rabbit hole here.

wiggle.com | Shimano 105 5800 STI Shifters | Gear Levers And Shifters Road $136 for new 105 shifters with cable and housing included? I dont need 11 speeds in any way, but thats tough to justify not getting if Claris is $100. I would get a new cassette either way for better range and a new chain would be part of whatever change I make.

Maybe its best to just do 105 since the cost difference is so nominal.

Steve Whitlatch 

10 speed Campagnolo Ergo Shifters will work with your Shimano 8 speed derailleurs and wheels. You can get them new from Ribble UK pretty cheap.

jetboy 

rabbit hole. yes, at the current 105 pricing its pretty hard to justify getting anything else. but 11 speed cassettes will not fit on your hub- so you would have to change that as well - and RD etc.

id stick in the 8-10 speed range as those are pretty much interchangable. any 10 speed will work with your tricolor. 11 speed is a new ballgame.

squirtdad

Not that simple the 105's wont work with 8 speed, so then you would need to get new rear wheel

My experience (not terrible extensive) was that trying to mix and match to get a 9spe sti ultrega set up working on my 1400 was really finicky, I finally went all matching and it was smooth.

so I would go Claris (assuming the pull works with what you have for deraller and cassette)

or for ~$600-625 your could go whole hog 105 with all new including wheels


Shimano Tiagra 4700 10 Speed Double Groupset - Groupsets - Ribble Cycles

Shimano 105 (5800) Silver 11 Speed Double Groupset - Groupsets - Ribble Cycles

Velocity A23 Black Shimano 105 5800 32h Hubs Wheelset 8 9 10 11s [640127] - $199.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike

mstateglfr 

@jetboy rabbit hole. yes, at the current 105 pricing its pretty hard to justify getting anything else. but 11 speed cassettes will not fit on your hub- so you would have to change that as well - and RD etc. @squirtdad Not that simple the 105's wont work with 8 speed, so then you would need to get new rear wheel




I have read/seen the ability to swap out the freehub to make an 8 to 11 swap possible. Is that not all that is needed?...not suggesting its simple, only that if a freehub is the one thing on the wheelset which would need to be swapped, I might be up for it since thats something I havent done before.
I had also read that a 600tricolor RD could shift 10 and 11 speed cassettes. Something about the RD basically being speed neutral and if its from late80s or more recent(so indexed), it can handle more. I have increased cassettes by 1 cog before, but not 3.

If it really would be a huge pain to go 105, then thatll help quickly eliminate that option.




Thanks all for the help and suggestions so far.

jetboy 

if people have done it and say it works then go for it! I knew that anything from 7-10speed that RD's are pretty much interchangeable (shimano that is) but was under the impression that 11 speed had changed the game. since I only have up to 10 speed I did not investigate fully.

as far as I know (again not fully investigated) you can change the freehub on your wheels to 11 speed. probably depending on your wheels and any sort of foibles they may or may not have.

it is interesting to see that 10 speed 105 levers are more expensive than 11 speed.

I will say that I had a tricolor FD with my 10 speed set up, and while it worked, it was not super. I changed it for a proper 10 speed dura-ace fd (new and $50 on ebay - I love how top of the line 7900 is now 75% off) and its much better. just saying.. the rabbit hole is deep.

himespau 

I've been down that rabbit hole. The trick is finding a plan and sticking to it. I didn't and have spent way more money buying parts for builds piecemeal after changing plans halfway through and have lots of extra, unused parts. Started out with one plan thinking I'd just buy campy ergos to go with a shimano 8 speed build I was going to do. But then I figured it was an italian frame and needed all italian parts, and I had the ergos already, didn't I? So I bought the rest of the parts (often used) for more than a complete groupset at a UK site would have cost me when you figure in stuff I bought that didn't work right. Then I had a complete shimano 8 speed group (minus shifters) hanging around, so I "had to" buy a frame to hang it on, but before I got around to building it up, I figured if I bought 10 speed shifters, chain, and cassette, I could use everything else I already had but hadn't installed, so now I've spent way more than I intended on the original build, but have 2 bikes (very different for different functions), some 8 speed bits, and bunch of other planned things that got discarded sitting around. Don't be me, find a plan and stick to it whatever it is.

Pawlus

6-8 speed groups work well with Each other and can be mixed. 9 speed used narrower chain and cassette spacing and thus will not work with 6-8 speed that smooth. Same goes for STI. 10 speed was even narrower, 11 speed - the most narrow. Take a look at that, you'll find answers for a lot of questions about compability here:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html

Also consider prices differences. 8 speed chains are super cheap. 10 or 11 speed chains are significantly more expensive, especially if they are 105 or Ultegra. Ever more difference in prices for cassettes. I can't confirm it myself but it is said 10 or 11 speed drive trains are less reliable then old, good 8 speed.

When I convert my girlfriends bike to drop bars I'm gonna be using either barcons or Ultegra 6500 8 speed STI.

squirtdad

searching shows freehub can be swapped (wasn't thinking that direction)

but it looks like

the pull for 11 speed derailer is different so you would need to change the rear derailer also

Art's Cyclery Blog » Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility


but in rabbit hole territory 11 speed chain, shifters, 11 speed cassette, ne rear rerailler...... will add up and you may still have compatibilility issues..... so then you need to think about getting a entire group

Tim_Iowa

I'm not sure that you can swap an 11-speed freehub onto an 8/9/10 speed hub. Anyone have a link?

Even if it is possible, you'd have to move the axle spacers around and re-dish the spokes.

However, you could take one of the cogs off the 11-speed cassette and then it would fit on your 8/9/10s hub. The cassette would have only 10 speeds, but with 11-speed spacing so it would work with the 5800 shifters and RD (the 6400 RD will not work with a 5800 shifter; Shimano changed the cable pull for 11 speed).

You would also want to use a 10 or 11-speed crankset, and an 11-speed chain.

jetboy 

SOO I am thinking Claris.

mstateglfr 

Haha, yeah its looking that way.
Im no component snob, but wasnt sure if claris was some pos component that would give me fits compared to older 600 STIs.

Pawlus

Actually installing 11 speed chainrings would be enough. I'm not sure if they make those in 5 bolt 130mm BCD though.

Tim_Iowa

I disagree. The ring-to-ring spacing is narrower for 11-speed cranks (in addition to the narrower rings). 11-speed rings on an 8 speed crank may be wide enough apart that the chain could fall between them.

jetboy 

id probably get the 600 sti off ebay and take a chance- just because it will match the rest of your group better. in my experience older STI levers were built to last.. so I suspect they are just fine and will do the job. at this point its just an aesthetic choice.

John Nolan 

Umm...why not barcons? Fit 'em and you're done. STIs aren't worth the trouble IMHO.

puckett129

I'd consider Shimergo with your current setup. 10 speed ergos from Ribble for less than $100.

Lazyass

I would keep your current group and buy some 6400 shifters on ebay. I have the original tricolor group on my '97 Raleigh and it works flawlessly. The good thing about those early shifters is you can take them apart and regrease everything if they get sticky. The Sunrace 8 speed cassette is cheap and actually outstanding quality, you can get it in an 11-28 if you want a wide range.

jetboy 

sti's work very well if you keep within a certain era range. for example, my 9 speed ultegra STI on my ironman is rock solid with no issues. Heck, I am running it with a 11-34t MTB cassette (with xtr rd) and its pretty much amazing. want to go like bat****? it can do it, want to climb like a goat? it can do it. there has never been any trouble at all.

edit: I also use sunrace and get great performance for the price. they have an RD for like $18 that works flawlessly.

John Nolan 

I didn't mean STIs aren't good, it just seems that they're a lot of trouble in this case, whereas barcons would be a simple upgrade, without too much extra fuss or money. Just my 2 cents. (And worth every penny!)

jetboy 

i hear you.

Bradleykd

If you go 10 speed STIs you'll need a 10 speed front derailleur also. I tried 10 speed 105 with a tricolor FD and had to change to a 10 speed FD because the lever pull wasn't enough for the wider cage on the tricolor with the narrower 10 spd chain.

mstateglfr 

I have barcons/bar ends on 2 bikes and have a set waiting to be used for a 3rd build.

Some friction suntour barcons, some accushift suntour barcons in friction mode, and some 9 speed Shimano bar ends.
Love em.

But i havent used STIs and this is a perfect time since i have no onterest in changing any of the other bikes.