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1972 PX-10 700c or 27-inch wheels?

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1972 PX-10 700c or 27-inch wheels?

Old 03-29-16, 04:53 PM
  #1  
jj1091
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1972 PX-10 700c or 27-inch wheels?

Looking at a '72 Px-10 that has 27-inch wheels on it, wondering if that year came originally with 700c or 27-inch? I'm thinking the U.S. market had 27-inch.
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Old 03-29-16, 05:13 PM
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IIRC it came with tubulars so it would be 700c.
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Old 03-29-16, 05:16 PM
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SJX426 is correct. Original rims would have been 700c tubulars.
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Old 03-29-16, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
IIRC it came with tubulars so it would be 700c.
Thanks. So, the diameter increase with it having 27's would only make a negligible difference for the brake caliper reach for the Mafac Racers? Looks like maybe a 4mm taller contact point. Just thinking this one through before making a deal.
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Old 03-29-16, 05:47 PM
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Is it really a PX10?
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Old 03-29-16, 05:55 PM
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At that time, 700c clincher rims were very exotic, and 27" was the US standard.

Like others have said, they come stock with sew ups.

If they were converted from the stock tubular tire rims, they were usually equipped with 27" clinchers. My '72 PX10 had 27" Rigida steel rims laced onto the Normandy Luxe Competition hubs when I acquired it. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them left the bike shop new that way - swapped by the local shop. Perhaps one of the Peugeot experts could comment. I never worked in a pug shop.

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Old 03-29-16, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Is it really a PX10?
Looks like it. Any idea what rims these are?
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Old 03-29-16, 07:16 PM
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You're are probably limited on tire sizes with 27" wheels.

My barn find 1967 PX-10 came with 2 sets of wheels - sewups and 27" clinchers. The original clincher tires were cheap 27" x 1".

As purchased:



I went down to my LBS and bought a set of 27" x 1 1/4" Paselas without checking the bike over carefully. After mounting them on the rims, I couldn't get the rear wheel in at all even with the tire deflated. The rear wheel hung up on the chainstay bridge. The front had almost zero clearance.

27" x 1 1/8" aren't much better. Eventually when I overhaul, clean and polish the sewup wheels, I'll switch out the 27" clinchers permanently. (my only 27" wheels)


I picked up an early 70's PX-10 to clean up and flip. The sewups are flat but notice how little room there is between the wheel and the chain stay bridge in the 2nd picture. I think that there would be a clearance problem on this bike too.




To answer the question about sewups being switched out for clinchers during the early 70's, yes it happened a lot. We sold a lot of bikes with sewups and frequently sold the customers a set of 700c alloy rimmed clinchers for commuting etc.

We occasionally got in an all Campy bike for service where some disreputable/unethical bike shop (or greedy bikie) switched the sewup wheels out for a cheap set of 27" steel rimmed clinchers.

PX-10s were full on racing bikes. They never had much clearance for fenders. Most of the other production bikes from that era had clearance for fenders and 27" wheels.

At a customers request we would either change out sewup rims for clinchers or for complete wheel sets of equal quality.

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Old 03-29-16, 07:23 PM
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i added nos 27" mavic wheels on my early '70s pr10, but couldn't get the rear wheel in with its 1" tire fully inflated.

not a problem unless you get a flat out on the road and forget the proper sequence to inflating it with just one co2 available.
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Old 03-30-16, 03:52 AM
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Thanks much for the pointers. Looking at pics of the bike, it barely has any room at the chainstay bridge (with 27 x 1-1/4's), and the brake shoes are slammed to their upper limit in the calipers and still had to be tilted slightly upward off the horizontal to fit the braking surface. I believe I'll pass on this one. The asking price was fair, but not at the expense of a wheelset.
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Old 03-30-16, 06:29 AM
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I worked in a Peugeot dealership during the early 1970s and while it most likely came with tubulars, there is the possibility of clinchers being OEM. We had the option of ordering a model called the UX10, which was a PX10 outfitted with 27" wheels. However, the UX10 was rarely selected over the PX10, due to the noticeable difference in weight. In the end we did a good business in aftermarket conversion to clinchers though my preference was 28" Fiamme aluminum rims.
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Old 03-30-16, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
I worked in a Peugeot dealership during the early 1970s and while it most likely came with tubulars, there is the possibility of clinchers being OEM. We had the option of ordering a model called the UX10, which was a PX10 outfitted with 27" wheels. However, the UX10 was rarely selected over the PX10, due to the noticeable difference in weight. In the end we did a good business in aftermarket conversion to clinchers though my preference was 28" Fiamme aluminum rims.
Ah, the UX-10 option. I thought I had heard something about this.

That's probably what my '72 was, since IIRC the spokes were french and the hubs were the correct Normandy Competition. If it was a bike shop swap out, they probably would have relaced with Union spokes or something, or swapped the wheels entirely for a cheap set with Rigida chrome rims and regular Normandy hubs.

Thx for the comments and elucidation T-mar and verktyg (and everyone else too )
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Old 03-31-16, 03:03 PM
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I have a 1971 PX10. The bike now has 700x32 clinchers, they fit with a moderate amount of clearance. I have a wheelset for another bike that has 27x1-1/4 tires on it. I'd be willing to test the fit of the 27x1-1/4 tires if you need to know if this tire can fit.
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Old 03-31-16, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
You're are probably limited on tire sizes with 27" wheels. ...

I went down to my LBS and bought a set of 27" x 1 1/4" Paselas without checking the bike over carefully. After mounting them on the rims, I couldn't get the rear wheel in at all even with the tire deflated. The rear wheel hung up on the chainstay bridge. The front had almost zero clearance.

27" x 1 1/8" aren't much better. Eventually when I overhaul, clean and polish the sewup wheels, I'll switch out the 27" clinchers permanently. (my only 27" wheels)

PX-10s were full on racing bikes. They never had much clearance for fenders. Most of the other production bikes from that era had clearance for fenders and 27" wheels.

Chas.
Chas, if I recall correctly, early 1970s PX-10s came in two different geometries, the tighter one you describe and a somewhat more relaxed one with a bit more clearance. I still think 700C would be the way to go. My 1971 Nishiki came with 27" clinchers and ample mudguard and tire clearance front and rear, and when I built up a set of tubular wheels for it (Fiamme yellow label rims and DT spokes on Campag. Record low-flange hubs), I got a bit tired of moving the brake pads up and down by the requisite 4mm.
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Old 03-31-16, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
I have a 1971 PX10. The bike now has 700x32 clinchers, they fit with a moderate amount of clearance. I have a wheelset for another bike that has 27x1-1/4 tires on it. I'd be willing to test the fit of the 27x1-1/4 tires if you need to know if this tire can fit.
Yes, I'd appreciate you trying out the fit. I had one other bike that had that problem of not being able to get the wheel off without deflating the tire, and it was an aggravation I'd rather not repeat. My concern with this particular bike is that it's running price-wise about the top of what I want to pay, and if I had to invest in another set of wheels it would put me over what I'm willing to shell out. The bike needs a replacement rear derailleur, bar tape, cables, and if I had to change out to 700c then I'd also need to replace tires, as well as a matched set of rims. For me, it's like saying I got a great deal for $300, then find I'm out another $400 for all the replacements. If I could live with the 27's, the minimal amount I'd have to add would be a couple hundred. $400 is just too much, over and above the cost of the bike.
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Old 03-31-16, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jj1091 View Post
Yes, I'd appreciate you trying out the fit. I had one other bike that had that problem of not being able to get the wheel off without deflating the tire, and it was an aggravation I'd rather not repeat. My concern with this particular bike is that it's running price-wise about the top of what I want to pay, and if I had to invest in another set of wheels it would put me over what I'm willing to shell out. The bike needs a replacement rear derailleur, bar tape, cables, and if I had to change out to 700c then I'd also need to replace tires, as well as a matched set of rims. For me, it's like saying I got a great deal for $300, then find I'm out another $400 for all the replacements. If I could live with the 27's, the minimal amount I'd have to add would be a couple hundred. $400 is just too much, over and above the cost of the bike.
Well, the 27x1-1/4 fit. It's a tight fit under the fork steerer tube and at the chainstays. It's doable, but the clearance is tight.

A 27x1-1/8 would fit well. This tire would be a good choice: https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=C..._medium%3Dbase
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Old 04-01-16, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
Chas, if I recall correctly, early 1970s PX-10s came in two different geometries, the tighter one you describe and a somewhat more relaxed one with a bit more clearance. I still think 700C would be the way to go. My 1971
That's information circulated by @dddd which probably has some merit. My sample is only N=2 so I'm no expert on PX-10s....

I've seen wheel clearance variations on late 60's to early 70's Gitane Tour de France and Super Corsa models too.



I suspect that the variances in those models from both makers were by not by design but rather by happenstance (after a 2 liitre wine lunch)!

During the bike boom, manufacturers, especially in France were pushing bikes out the door as fast as they could box them up and push them out the door! There was no such thing as QC.



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Old 04-01-16, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Well, the 27x1-1/4 fit. It's a tight fit under the fork steerer tube and at the chainstays. It's doable, but the clearance is tight.

A 27x1-1/8 would fit well. This tire would be a good choice: https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=C..._medium%3Dbase
Thanks much, Barrettscv, the bike in question appears to have a cracked rear dropout on the driveside, as well, so with that plus a new wheel build, new tires, cables, bar tape, rear derailleur, etc, etc, it'll be out of my league, and I'd be passing simply for the cracked rear dropout, anyway. The frame paint and graphics are very nice on this one, which made it desirable, but I'll wait for another one.
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