qcpmsame 

First off, Drillium Dude is a righteous guy, good people, all round nice guy, there, got that up front.

I am having the pleasure of undertaking my first C&V build, DD was kind enough to pass along to me the Medici frame and fork from his Diego Garcia adventure, just prior to his retirement from the Navy. When it arrives in the next few days I will photograph it and the components already assembles, so far, in order to join in here, with the Loyal Order of Ancient Bicycle Resurrection

DD had some good posts about the Medici, it is a Pro Strada, and from what the experts here could figure, it was a 77 or 78 year model. I am going to try and suss this out as best that I can.

It will not be a totally correct restoration, I am no expert about Campagnolo components dating and details, by any stretch of the term. [/B]It will be as close to the original spec as I can feasibly accomplish.[/B]

So far I have obtained from eBay:

1. An NR crankset, came with 41/45 rings, I chanced out the 45 for a 52. Dust caps were won Saturday night.
2. An NR bottom bracket, Italian threading, in excellent condition.
3. SR recessed mounting brake calipers, SR levers, the gray hoods will be replaced with gum Campag re-pop items.
4. Ofmega low flange 36h hubs laced to Mavic tubular rims, I'll have to look at the model of these rims and then post that. Excellent condition, I am going to fudge things here, the mismatched skewers will be replaced with Campag items. Shoot me for the sinful error of my ways.
5. An NR 27.2 seat post, remarkable condition and at a price I never expected to obtain, less than $50.00.
6. An NR headset, Italian threaded.
7. The derailleurs are both NR, as are the shifters, these I purchased from DD.

The pedals will be either SR or NR, the later being my first choice, either one will get Campagnolo toe clips and some leather straps. I am watching for these now.

The stem and bars, these will both be Cinelli, correct models by the 1980 catalog specs, a 1-A stem and corresponding bars. Watching for these also.

The saddle will be a Selle San Marco Concour, in basic black leather. WFTA

The cable housing will be the correct Medici yellow, cables will be Campag suitable, decent quality, TBD. WFTA

Tires will most likely be Conti or Vittoria or Challenge, TBD. WFTA

I will be walking slowly through this build, I want this to be a rider, and not one to have hanging around to look at. What correct tools I don't have I will either obtain, or possibly borrow from the owner of my LBS, so things get done right. All assembly will be done with correct thread locking or anti-seize applied, as required, and torqued correctly. I'll post pics as best as I can, your comments and recommendations will be most welcome.

All prayers, Hail Marys, Decades of the Rosary, Our Fathers, etc, will be greatly appreciated.

Bill

bikemig 

I'm looking forward to following this build

One question, are you building up a Medici? That's a US bike and so the italian threaded headset you picked up would not be your best choice, Medici

You can thread an italian headset on an english threaded bike but that's a b fit (according to sutherlands) and once you do that, you shouldn't go back. I've seen the conversion done the other way (from Italian and English since English is more common).

Just a heads up which you can feel free to ignore if building an Italian bike (or if I'm wrong about the threading on the Medici).

RobbieTunes

You're already more organized than I ever am, proof positive of a good build.
Attention to detail, adapt, overcome, all that good stuff. Bravo Zulu and all that.

qcpmsame 

Thanks Robbie, and bikemig, if DD hadn't come up with the idea, this wouldn't be posted.

The threading and Medici, Yes this is a Medici Pro Strada being built, the same frame that was built by DD, on Diego Garcia a couple years back. DD told me that it was Italian threading, and that if push came to shove either British or Italian threading would work, and what have you said above. No real hard reason for having the Italian threaded items, probably the best I can offer is they are what I successfully bid on at eBay. I have both the 80, and the 84 catalogs, your link offers, in .pdf format, printed out, they confirmed that the threading mentioned is Italian, so thee are what I bid on. I appreciate your input very much, I am lacking in my knowledge about the various threadings and their dimensions/applications, so everything I gain here is a plus for me. (the entire Medici /Masi drama is a bit much for me, the CR email battle is epic stuff)

The organization is from my engineering background, if I had the time, and access to the main computers here at work, I could do a Sure Track CP/M schedule for this project. Not that it would make any difference It is simply how I am wired, or weird, take your pick. Thanks for the Bravo-Zulu, Top R, Semper Fi.

Bill

randyjawa 

MY "TEN SPEEDS" is a website designed to help people, who are new to the vintage bicycle scene, save time, effort and cash, while learning to avoid common restoration mistakes. And, for what it is worth, almost all of the bikes featured there are not 100% properly restored.

I made just about every mistake possible when I built up my first vintage road bike...



However, I have learned a thing or two since then...

exmechanic89

Should make a really nice ride, but I'd skip the tubulars if you really do plan on riding this bike a lot.

due ruote 

The Dude sets an awfully high bar. If your build looks anything like one of his, you will have done very well. Sounds like you are off to a good start.

I concur with your choice of Concour, but really it's Concor.

I wouldn't be afraid of tubulars unless you ride on a lot of sketchy roads. Florida should be favorable, unless there is a lot of glass.

Drillium Dude 

Bill's good people, too. I mean, there's a reason this frame is on the way to him! USPS Tracking says the big box will arrive Thursday

Bill will do a great job on this - as noted, his engineering tendencies have come to the forefront and he's well and truly got this by the horns.

I've run low on spares (sold off a lot of stuff in the past few months), otherwise I could probably have sent a full build-kit along with the frame/fork

I'll be watching this build with interest, too. The best part will be seeing pics of it during a ride somewhere down the road. It would be cool to see a bike I once owned being enjoyed by someone else; I don't know why, but I just think it would be cool.

DD

Wildwood 

First vintage build = Medici. I think that's classic. +1 on the tubies.

qcpmsame 

Randy, I first visited your site several years ago, and I will be referring to it regularly. My first true European bicycle was a Bottecchia Special, a white 72, even though it had those Valentino derailleurs it was a dream bike for me. Only really frustrating thing about it, besides stupidly selling it, was the paint flaking next to the lugs. I will eventually build myself a nice Bottecchia, but probably a Giro, or a Professional. I have read most of your site, and reread a lot of it. That Pug is stone beautiful.

Due, I never said I could spell, we enjunears don't do that one much Seriously, no sweat about that, thanks for the heads up. And, I am fine with tubulars, I rode them exclusively in the late 70s and early 80s, so Tubasti on my fingers isn't a new feeling to me Appreciate the concerns, exmechanic89, they don't make me nervous, and this build will get the pair of Rootboy tiresavers I have waiting to get some use.

DD, I cannot thank you enough, it is all appreciated very much. I'll work really hard to make you proud of the results.



As I said above, it won't be a show perfect build, not even close, but I am a true Campagnolo lover, so what is supposed to be Campag, will be Campag. Maybe not perfect, as far as the dates and such, but still as close as I can manage. Some of the components show being Super Record in the 1980 catalog, as close as I can find from the year Jeff suspects it is, I will be using mainly Nuovo Record, it has been easier to find and bid on successfully. I have most everything Campag that I need now, the pedals and toe clips are still to be found. The bars and stem are going to be Cinelli, just not engraved with the Medici logo.

Thanks much to all of you that have replied, all these positive remarks encourage me to do as good a build as I can.

Bill

repechage

Note:
You have a Campagnolo bottom bracket and cranks… but they may not play perfectly together, the era is dependent.
The year of the crank arms (date code on the back of the drive side arm, none, in a Diamond, in a circle or square)
Overall length of the spindle, 112/113 or 115/115.5…
All this can direct you to a type of front derailleur too..

Blame the CPSC.

qcpmsame 

Repechage,
Thanks, I believe that you had posted a reply detailing this recently, if not-apologies, but I did take what you said above into account. I believe I got this correct, but it will tell when I get the frame and ders here. Fingers and eyes crossed.....if not I guess its time to do more bidding.

I do appreciate that you took time to bring this up, the fact so many of the long time guys here have expressed interest and taken time to comment is encouraging.

Dang CPSC, always messing up things for the C&V stuff, mumble, grumble, mumble..........

Bill

qcpmsame 

Repechage,
Okay, I found the site that had the details on the BB spindle and crank compatibility issues you warned me about, it is in the Classic Rendezvous' Campagnolo section, that is good information for a neophyte like me. As much as I love Campagnolo vintage components, my time away from them has cost me dearly in the knowledge department.

So, you get a Chapeau, for properly warning me to take the spindle/crank compatibility issue into account, and I get a "dumbass", for incorrect attribution. Sheesh, getting that one so early in the game sucks.....

Link for the CR page regarding Campagnolo spindle dates, and proper crankset combatibility:Campy bbkt markings by M.Petry

Bill

Bikerider007

A good amount of thought going on here, I like it. Subscribed!

Drillium Dude 

The NR front derailleur I put in has a flat, no-lip cage, so there should be no issue. It's only when one mates an early BB spindle with a later, lipped FD that problems arise from the derailleur striking the back of the crank arm.

DD

qcpmsame 

I'll post pictures of all of the components, and the wheelset, that I have assembled to date, tomorrow. I checked the crank set for its date identifier, it is a 1 in a circle, indicating a post CPSC date of manufacture, and the bottom bracket's spindle is the old type, it has the 70ssX120 code on it. So, I will see of that flat cage front derailleur, Drillium Dude is sending with the frame, and the crank set/bottom bracket get along with the frame.

That indicates I am working with an early spindle and a later crank set. Per what Drillium Dude said above, and Mark Petry's article in the link, the lips on the later, post CPSC change, front derailleur cause the most problems, including rubbing grooves in the crank's arms. Reading Mark Petry's article, I think I will be alright, if someone can tell me what the 1 in the circle indicates as far as the year of manufacture of the crank set, I would greatly appreciate the help. For that matter, if some one would recommend a comprehensive book on Campagnolo and their components, I would greatly appreciate the heads-up.

Not going to worry about things, I am stoked to be doing this build. I missed out on a set of Record pedals this evening, but there are several pairs of Superlegerri (sp?) pedals on eBay right now, and I need to build up my funds from last week's binge, and from our son's wedding last week. I do have pending bids on a Cinelli 1A stem and a Cinelli handle bar, they are still several days away. Fingers, and eyes, crossed for good luck.

More to follow, see y'all,
Bill

repechage

Early spindle and later crank will leave the chainrings slightly inboard of where they should be.
The chain line suffers a bit as a result, not a killer but in a cross chain situation the chain may touch the large chainring in the Small/small gear combo.
A Medici usually does not have dimpled chain stays... So as you attach the drive side crank make sure the inner ring does not get uncomfortably close to the chain stay. As DD stated, the flat cage front derailleur is no problem.
For reference all the juggling of dimensions Campagnolo did put more space between the backside of the crank arm and the outer chainring face.

qcpmsame 

Good information, I will just have to see how things work out when the frame arrives. Your input is appreciated, repechage, please continue to follow and comment, if you would.

Here goes with some pictures of the components I have obtained to date. Nothing has been cleaned, or polished yet, and the pictures do not represent any assembly order.

These aren't very good pictures, I don't have a nice camera, so these shall have to do.


The front brake caliper has a hole drilled in the arm where the adjuster barrel slips in, possibly a set screw was used at some point, it is shown in one of the pictures. The nutting is the correct recessed set up, the brake pads are in excellent/new condition. The Campagnolo is the script engraving on both calipers. The front brake caliper has a hole drilled in the arm where the adjuster barrel slips in, possibly a set screw was used at some point, it is shown in the third and the last pictures.



The levers are showing some scrapes on both, the hoods are to be replaced with the gum type reproductions, with the Campagnolo logos in place. The gray hoods will be put back for another build when I find them necessary for accuracy.



You can just barely make out the bump on the crankset's spider arm, at the square taper female opening. Originally, the crankset had 45/41 rings, I swapped the 45 for a 52 ring. The crank arms have the circle with a "1" inside, for the manufacture date. The 41 ring has a diamond with a numeral inside, so it is a pre-1980. It fit well when I installed it so no problem should arise there. The big ring had scars where chain drop occurred, on its inside. I will be cleaning and polishing all of the components thoroughly.



The bottom bracket is marked 70-ss-120, This does not represent any assembly order, just layed out for the picture.


The wheels are Ofmega hubs and Mavic rims, they are not identical models, but I cannot find the difference, fairly good condition, the skewers are not Ofmega, a mismatched pair that the seller had inserted. Campagnolo skewers will be used, unless some Ofmega skewers are found, in the interest of honesty.

All of the races for the spindle and cups, as well as the not pictured head set, are in good-excellent condition, no nicks or gouges are present, thankfully. The Nuovo Record seat post is in the thumbnail attachment, below.

NR Seatpost


I did not include the head set, it is here, and just needs a thorough cleaning prior to assembly.


All comments, and information are most welcome.

Bill

Drillium Dude 

1. The little hole in the caliper arm is for a little rubber bumper to keep the front brake arm from chipping the paint if it inadvertently smacked the down tube. Most of the time you'll find these later version brakes with the bumper missing - it seems the epoxy used wasn't up to the job over the long haul.

2. A "1" in a circle on the crankarms indicate 1981 production. Cool that they both match - they don't always. Heck, my understanding is that many times arm sets left the factory in boxes with different dates on both arms. I have a milled/modded set that has '80 and an '81 arms. That should work fine for you with the flat-cage FD. In fact, here are some little details regarding Campy BBs from a 1979 Bikecology catalog (a great little bit of reference material since 1979 incorporated the CPSC-mandated changes):



3. It looks as though your BB has the thick, rifled cups so you should be fine with crankset/chainline. A little tinkering is fun

4. That post looks fantastic - you got a great deal there.

DD

qcpmsame 

The frame set arrived late this morning, safe and sound, Jeff packaged everything super. The skewer spreaders are being returned shortly, man that is some nice fabrication, Dude. The front derailleur, rear derailleur and shifters were included, and are awaiting my cleaning and polishing. All the threads will be cleaned up and checked over thoroughly, but they feel pristine to me. I am looking for some matching pouch up paint to get the few places cleaned up to compliment the beautiful deep green paint on the frame and fork. I am stoked, beyond description, thanks, again, DD, now to make you, and the rest of the C&V crew, proud.

Head tube, and the emblem, Love the Flanders Lion!

Drive side of the bottom bracket, some of the scratches I need to touch up, on the stay.

Overall view of the drive side.

Drive side stay, rear drop, and the front derailleur.

Rear seat stay view, bake bridge and seat lug cluster (poor focus there.)

Head and down tube from the drive side, all the cable guides are in place.

Fork, the fork crown is really nice, threads are excellent.

Bottom Bracket, serial number is totally readable.

Fork, showing the drops.

Drops again.

Can't see wasting further bandwidth, I took several more pictures in order to document this build. I'll be posting updates as the build up progresses, thanks everyone that has commented, sent PMs and such. I need to gather up the remaining needed parts, the pedals, toe cages and straps, stem, handlebars, saddle, cables and housing, I have the stem and bars on bid right now. Y'all have a good Friday, and weekend, I have riding, and building to do.

Bill

qcpmsame 

Headed to the LBS tomorrow morning, Tom has the Campag tools, to chase the BB threads, and face them, also. DD warned me about this, seems that Diego Garcia's salty air doesn't play nice with steel. The head set went on with no issues. No, I did not beat the top and bottom races on, I used a homemade rod, washers and nuts, tool, I had seen in a thread here a few years back. Pictures of both the BB and the headset/fork tomorrow, probably as the bottom bracket is installed, and anything else that I get done.

I am cleaning up all the various parts I have obtained, so far. The brake levers have some scratches where they hit the asphalt at some point. The Drillium Dude scratch repair thread will be put to work on this item. The derailleurs have been cleaned up and lubricated at all the pivot points, calipers get done as I am doing the levers. The NR seat post is in good shape, it gets a thorough cleaning, still. The wheels are in pretty decent shape, I want to inspect the bearings and the cups, and grease them. They seem to be true on just a hand held inspection, I want to check this correctly. My time schedule is filling up, riding is to be maintained.

I am still searching for a decent saddle, looking for a black Selle San Marco Concor, or a Cinelli Unicanitor (much too expensive so far.) I am bidding on a Cinelli stem and handlebars, they end tomorrow evening, low bid amounts as I am trying to rebuild the funds after bingeing on what I have. I was low bidder for a set of Campagnolo skewers last night, I forgot that I bid on them, the settings for reminders has been changed now. *The hubs are Ofmega, I am using the Campagnolo NR skewers, to just flat have them for my own remembrances of having them in the past, and looking down at the front from time to time, to admire them. I say all this in the interest of full disclosure.

More to come....

Bill

3speedslow

All right! Been wanting to wander over here and check out this interesting Italian thread.

I like your parts gathered so far. This will be stunning when it comes out to play. The frame is stunning.

Stick to your guns on the tubs. I will shod mine with tubs and if it's the wrong decision, I want company!

If you open up your choices for saddle, I would look at the other San Marco's like the Rolls. They do any frame justice!

Watching how the build progresses.

due ruote 

At the risk of opening up another chapter of a tedious debate, I would highly recommend the use of a sniping program if you are trying to source parts from EBay. The one I generally use is Auctionsniper.

Bikerider007

I'm where DD is at, too many projects and now low on parts or would help you out with Cinelli stuff.

What size bars are you putting on it? Stem length? Color? I have a black 3t stem that would be perfect but it is shorter length, even has a little 3t allen plug that is yellow. I had the bars but moved them to another project. If you have interest, PM me. I will just donate it to the project.

Road Fan

I applaud your intent to torque everything correctly. When I started doing that I stopped breaking bolts. Despite having worked on bikes in one form or another since 1960 (5 years old!) I don't have the "calibrated arm" skill. Your approach also gives me the confidence that if I was to buy any of your parts, they are in excellent rider condition, if not NIB.

Sorry about the torquing diatribe, but it is one of my peeves, that people abuse rare original parts that then cannot be used by someone who understands them and wants them for a rider. All of my C&Vs are riders, but as original as I can ride them.

At first I was surprised at your focus on Campy toeclips, but went down to the Masi Vault deep in my sub-basements, and my 1980 has the SL Strada pedals, with black anodized aluminum rails (lovingly scratched up with metal cleats) with aluminum Campy toeclips and Binda Extra straps. So your choice is most likely right on, just that you could buy a basic used car for the price of Binda Extras today.

I don't know where you stand with handlebars, but I have a few vintage Cinelli bars in 26.4 mm if you are interested. Stored (where else?) in the Cinelli Vault (next to my washing machine, to the consternation of Mrs. Road Fan).

[edited to remove information already provided in the thread!**

I wasn't sure if you settled the crankset age issue. I've always used this summary, written by Greg Parker of Bicycle Classics.com, who has been selling NOS vintage Campy for at least 12 years, and whose start as a vintage freak was probably in the mid-70s if not earlier:

"From 1958 - 1972 Record crank arms were not dated on their backs
From 1973 - 1979 the year of crank manufacture is the last digit in a diamond
From 1980 - 1984 the year of crank manufacture is the last digit in a circle
"11" in a rectangle means 1985, "2x" means 1986, and "3x" means 1987. The second digit supposedly represents the quarter of the year during which the arm was made."

Kudos on your solid approach and your careful research! I'm sure you're going to love this bike.

Re: Medici/Masi; some of the involved parties are now gone from us, most recently Brian Bayliss. The tone at CR has changed to wistful respect. Medici is certainly one of the great American moves into the high-end bike world, as was Masi. Medici originators came from Masi, so some of the credit belongs to Masi. If I had a good option on a frame like yours, I'd bite.