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When bottle bosses don't look... right.

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When bottle bosses don't look... right.

Old 05-05-16, 01:14 AM
  #1  
The Thin Man 
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When bottle bosses don't look... right.

I purchased a gorgeous Pinarello Record, sight unseen (sans a few small images), from across the country. When it arrived everything was as it should be except for the seat tube bottle bosses. The frame has two sets of bottle bosses. One set is on the down tube and one set on the seat tube. The down tube set is as we are all used to seeing; brazed in properly. The seat tube quickly had my eye as, at first glance, the bosses seemed to have been drilled and tapped. At first, I thought this might have been something a previous owner did but by gently removing both screws, I see there is red paint on the inside threads. This frame has clearly not been repainted before so one can only conclude that the drilling/tapping must have been done at the Pinarello shop and before it was painted.

This is the first I have ever seen of this. Can anyone shed some light on this? What are thoughts on this technique being performed at the Traviso shop? Why would there not be bosses brazed in?

Any insight is appreciated.



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Old 05-05-16, 02:12 AM
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Those look sleek.

It looks to me like the threaded portion is thicker than the tubing. I could imagine punching a hole and rolling the threads, but then one might expect rounded corners. So, I'm thinking it may in fact have some kind of a boss welded or brazed in place, then smoothed out and threaded.

Photos I'm seeing seem to indicate a flush mount, or minimally raised boss on the seat tube.

Last edited by CliffordK; 05-05-16 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 05-05-16, 09:00 AM
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Might have just been a shop adding a set of bosses by drilling/tapping. I did it at the shop a couple of times years ago. That being said, I had a neon pink Trevisio I bought used a decade ago that had the same setup.
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Old 05-05-16, 09:03 AM
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Looks like a riv nut. Not sure if that is a thing people use on bikes, but I've used them in thin sheet metal on my van and they look similar (although these are more nicely finished.)
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Old 05-05-16, 09:10 AM
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Could be transitional period frame when everyone started going to double bottle mounts and they just wanted to update their last runs of still unpainted frames already made with single bottle mounts quickly for better sales potential.......
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Old 05-05-16, 10:05 AM
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With only a picture it's a Guess ... (but I have brazed up/ some frames) if just Drilling the .9mm wall thickness tube and threading it,
there would not be 3~4 thread, shown

so further guess The setscrew fills the hole * .. if You put a Frame fit Pump in front of the seat tube .. who's to Know ..
someone planned ahead there is enough threads to hold a Bottle cage

But they did not use a flanged Boss and instead wanted a Flangeless look for the appearance .

that could be done with a short piece of steel tubing , brazed in then cut off , threaded and filed smooth..

* I have a Pinarello CX frame , I left the setscrew there for that reason, but then they used a thin flanged boss..

Last edited by fietsbob; 05-05-16 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 05-05-16, 02:27 PM
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I had this set up on my '90 Cadore but more normal looking bosses on my earlier '85 Catena Lusso
Sorry these are the best pics I have



Last edited by rgver; 05-05-16 at 02:31 PM. Reason: added photo
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Old 05-05-16, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dylansbob View Post
Might have just been a shop adding a set of bosses by drilling/tapping. I did it at the shop a couple of times years ago.
can you do that without brazing?
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Old 05-05-16, 08:13 PM
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This is a feature of Pinarello's. I have two with these water bottle cage mounts. What is interesting is that they are only on the ST. It happens one of them is stripped so here is a raw picture of one of the mounts:
[IMG]P1030827 , on Flickr[/IMG]
Looks like a tube brazed in.
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Last edited by SJX426; 05-05-16 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 05-06-16, 12:08 AM
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Thanks for all the reply's, everyone. Each reply gave me more and more confidence that this oddity wasn't something I should be worried about as if it was done at the factory, then it was done by those who intended it to be released to the world that way.

Both @rgver and @SJX426 posted confirming images and @rgver even had the same flush mounted, rounded flathead screws as mine. Thus further proving this not to be some drunken evening made possible by an ambitious previous owner and a sixer of PBR. So, thanks guys for posting those images.

One question I still don't see addressed is the consistency issue. OK, so there is some seat tube bosses without flanged bosses. Why would Pinarello make one (seat tube) flush mounted and the other (down tube) flanged?

My worries are already put to rest with the previous posts so this question is more of a curiosity than a confirmation.

Either way, my appreciation to all who gave their thoughts.
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Old 05-06-16, 04:28 AM
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I think they used these on the ST as they look cleaner if only using the DT bottle cage
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Old 05-06-16, 06:53 AM
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Huh, that's slick.

How would the small insert be brazed? What holds it in place while brazing, friction?


EDIT -- it would be interesting to look down the seat tube and see these inserts. Perhaps they have some kind of flange on the back side?

Last edited by rm -rf; 05-06-16 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 05-06-16, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
This is a feature of Pinarello's. I have two with these water bottle cage mounts. What is interesting is that they are only on the ST.
Yeah. Those start out as a standard flanged boss, then the flange is filed off to leave it flush with the tube. I'm not sure what the appeal is or why it was only done on the seat tube. The problem is that there is very little material joining the remains of the boss to the tube, and it can break off if a cage is mounted and the bike falls over, knocking the cage.
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Old 05-06-16, 07:07 AM
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If there is no pump peg, maybe they did it so you can use a frame-fit pump down the seat tube and the flusher flat screws would not rub the body of the pump. I had a Guerciotti from the early 80's with no peg and standard seat tube bottle bosses. Even using set screws threaded flush with the braze-ons, the bosses still interfered with my frame-fit Silca (i.e. scratched it up).

Last edited by gearbasher; 05-06-16 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 05-06-16, 07:26 AM
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+1. Dual bottle bosses drove the relocation of the pump to the top tube and the subsequent wide spread adoption of the pump peg. A flush mounted seat tube boss may have been an interim soultion to provide the necessary clearance for the traditional cap head Allen screws to clear the pump body and prevent marring.

Last edited by T-Mar; 05-06-16 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 05-06-16, 07:30 AM
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My olde Pinarello had that style on the seattube.

My olde Scapin has that style on the seattube.
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Old 05-06-16, 07:41 AM
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Upon checking the Montello (factory paint), it looks like it they are the same on the DT as well.
[IMG]P1020152, on Flickr[/IMG]
Don't give me grief about the Campy bottle with DA on the bike. The HS is Campy!

The other frame, pictured in post 9, has standard mounts on the DT.

I agree with @JohnDThompson that it is not the strongest joint. My other concern is paint damage due to the cage mounting directly on the frame. IIRC there are rubber/fiber washers between the cage and the frame.

The Montello and the other frame have pump pegs on the HT.
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Old 05-06-16, 07:44 AM
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I ride two Pinarello Team bikes, a '84 and '91 that were clearly well used in the day (likely used both the DT and ST for water) and have thousands of miles added by me and never had a problem with these internal bosses nor have I ever heard of a problem with them even with later models that had both ST and DT with internal bosses. I agree that getting to Giovanni's rationale would be interesting as it clearly weakens the connection as John says above.
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