C&V Clunker Challenge 100
07-02-16, 01:44 AM
#276
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Try Evapo-Rust. Seriously, for parts that you can soak it is nothing short of witchcraft, and I'm having pretty good luck with it removing surface rust from the frame wrapped in ER soaked paper towels as shown previously.
As an example, this rear derailleur:
came out looking like this after a long Evapo-Rust bath:
(Yes, it even improves the focus and lighting of photos!)
As an example, this rear derailleur:
came out looking like this after a long Evapo-Rust bath:
(Yes, it even improves the focus and lighting of photos!)
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07-02-16, 01:46 PM
#277
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After 2 shake down rides of 3 miles and 6.5 miles, time for an assessment: I have to say, I'm impressed with the early Super Sport. Back in 2007, a co-worker gave me his dad's 1964 SS(complete with original paperwork) with the proviso that I find it a good home. At the time I was preparing to re-locate from Olympia, WA to Oregon's mid Willamette Valley and the only things notable to me about the bike were the Brooks saddle and the Cinelli Track bars with adjustable stem. These I removed before I put the bike up for sale. A $chwinn collector got the bike and convinced me to include the original saddle, bars and stem. I don't even remember riding it.
This Copper Tone SS had similar track bars but with a lesser Ava stem. Early Schwinn catalogs show the SS with either Randonneur type bars or something resembling a North Road bar on the ladies model. It appears to have been fashionable to order the SS with track bars or to add them later, as I have seen several set up this way.
Track bars rate at least a +10 for style, but as far as ride comfort, handling and braking safely, I give them a -20. Track bars are narrow and designed to be ridden in the drops only, without brakes. The levers mount solidly but the bars are not particularly compatible with riding on the hoods or tops, and the levers really only operate easily from the drops.
The attached front view shows how they cant inwards at an awkward angle. A line through the levers intersects with the fork ends. This takes some getting used to and for an old man, they aren't really as safe as the drop bar/brake combo we're used to on our road bikes. I'm proceeding cautiously until I get comfortable using them. I have seen track bikes on the street with a lever mounted near the stem and may try that.
Otherwise, the Super Sport is a great ride. The Brooks saddle turned out pretty good. After several treatments had softened it some, I sanded off the worst of the cracking and other damage. I worked up from coarse to #400 then finished with 0000 steel wool and another treatment with my proofide substitute. Saddle is every bit as comfortable as any broken in Brooks and one of the real pluses for the SS.
The bike has a solid feel with 27" X 1 1/4" tires on the 1 1/8" rims. With cleaned, lubed and adjusted hubs, it coasts well. There is considerable wear on freewheel cogs and crank gear teeth, chain has worn grooves in the inside surface of the big wheel and it is visibly bent, so I shift carefully. The front and rear derailleurs function OK, but are also on their last legs. I would have replaced everything, but my tastes would not have allowed me to stay within the $100 budget. Given the wear on the drive train, I'm reasonably sure the wheels were replaced at some time. They are the correct hubs and rims for a 66 SS, but had no visible wear on the rim edges. Don
This Copper Tone SS had similar track bars but with a lesser Ava stem. Early Schwinn catalogs show the SS with either Randonneur type bars or something resembling a North Road bar on the ladies model. It appears to have been fashionable to order the SS with track bars or to add them later, as I have seen several set up this way.
Track bars rate at least a +10 for style, but as far as ride comfort, handling and braking safely, I give them a -20. Track bars are narrow and designed to be ridden in the drops only, without brakes. The levers mount solidly but the bars are not particularly compatible with riding on the hoods or tops, and the levers really only operate easily from the drops.
The attached front view shows how they cant inwards at an awkward angle. A line through the levers intersects with the fork ends. This takes some getting used to and for an old man, they aren't really as safe as the drop bar/brake combo we're used to on our road bikes. I'm proceeding cautiously until I get comfortable using them. I have seen track bikes on the street with a lever mounted near the stem and may try that.
Otherwise, the Super Sport is a great ride. The Brooks saddle turned out pretty good. After several treatments had softened it some, I sanded off the worst of the cracking and other damage. I worked up from coarse to #400 then finished with 0000 steel wool and another treatment with my proofide substitute. Saddle is every bit as comfortable as any broken in Brooks and one of the real pluses for the SS.
The bike has a solid feel with 27" X 1 1/4" tires on the 1 1/8" rims. With cleaned, lubed and adjusted hubs, it coasts well. There is considerable wear on freewheel cogs and crank gear teeth, chain has worn grooves in the inside surface of the big wheel and it is visibly bent, so I shift carefully. The front and rear derailleurs function OK, but are also on their last legs. I would have replaced everything, but my tastes would not have allowed me to stay within the $100 budget. Given the wear on the drive train, I'm reasonably sure the wheels were replaced at some time. They are the correct hubs and rims for a 66 SS, but had no visible wear on the rim edges. Don
07-03-16, 06:51 PM
#278
Senior Member
so close i can taste it. -cables and chain in the mail!
07-03-16, 07:12 PM
#279
Senior Member
Man, that came a long way!
Nice touch on the lug outlines and the clunker 2016 label. Hopefully that part is a decal because without it I'd say you could double, or maybe even triple, your money easily. Those look like nice tires, btw. I wish I could get some like that for free! My Puch has clearance for days!
Nice touch on the lug outlines and the clunker 2016 label. Hopefully that part is a decal because without it I'd say you could double, or maybe even triple, your money easily. Those look like nice tires, btw. I wish I could get some like that for free! My Puch has clearance for days!
07-03-16, 07:24 PM
#280
Senior Member
Did some more work on the Puch tonight. I got to the point of putting on a wheel and found that it was terribly out of dish and true, likely because of the 4 spokes that were so loose that they were rattling.
Something else didn't quite look right so I got out the egg cups:
It's a quick fix though:
And when I finished up tonight, I've almost got a rideable bike:
All I've got left is to true, dish, and de-sticker the front wheel and run cables/housing and adjust the brakes.
Something else didn't quite look right so I got out the egg cups:
It's a quick fix though:
And when I finished up tonight, I've almost got a rideable bike:
All I've got left is to true, dish, and de-sticker the front wheel and run cables/housing and adjust the brakes.
07-03-16, 07:31 PM
#281
Senior Member
After 2 shake down rides of 3 miles and 6.5 miles, time for an assessment: I have to say, I'm impressed with the early Super Sport. Back in 2007, a co-worker gave me his dad's 1964 SS(complete with original paperwork) with the proviso that I find it a good home. At the time I was preparing to re-locate from Olympia, WA to Oregon's mid Willamette Valley and the only things notable to me about the bike were the Brooks saddle and the Cinelli Track bars with adjustable stem. These I removed before I put the bike up for sale. A $chwinn collector got the bike and convinced me to include the original saddle, bars and stem. I don't even remember riding it.
This Copper Tone SS had similar track bars but with a lesser Ava stem. Early Schwinn catalogs show the SS with either Randonneur type bars or something resembling a North Road bar on the ladies model. It appears to have been fashionable to order the SS with track bars or to add them later, as I have seen several set up this way.
Track bars rate at least a +10 for style, but as far as ride comfort, handling and braking safely, I give them a -20. Track bars are narrow and designed to be ridden in the drops only, without brakes. The levers mount solidly but the bars are not particularly compatible with riding on the hoods or tops, and the levers really only operate easily from the drops.
The attached front view shows how they cant inwards at an awkward angle. A line through the levers intersects with the fork ends. This takes some getting used to and for an old man, they aren't really as safe as the drop bar/brake combo we're used to on our road bikes. I'm proceeding cautiously until I get comfortable using them. I have seen track bikes on the street with a lever mounted near the stem and may try that.
Otherwise, the Super Sport is a great ride. The Brooks saddle turned out pretty good. After several treatments had softened it some, I sanded off the worst of the cracking and other damage. I worked up from coarse to #400 then finished with 0000 steel wool and another treatment with my proofide substitute. Saddle is every bit as comfortable as any broken in Brooks and one of the real pluses for the SS.
The bike has a solid feel with 27" X 1 1/4" tires on the 1 1/8" rims. With cleaned, lubed and adjusted hubs, it coasts well. There is considerable wear on freewheel cogs and crank gear teeth, chain has worn grooves in the inside surface of the big wheel and it is visibly bent, so I shift carefully. The front and rear derailleurs function OK, but are also on their last legs. I would have replaced everything, but my tastes would not have allowed me to stay within the $100 budget. Given the wear on the drive train, I'm reasonably sure the wheels were replaced at some time. They are the correct hubs and rims for a 66 SS, but had no visible wear on the rim edges. Don
This Copper Tone SS had similar track bars but with a lesser Ava stem. Early Schwinn catalogs show the SS with either Randonneur type bars or something resembling a North Road bar on the ladies model. It appears to have been fashionable to order the SS with track bars or to add them later, as I have seen several set up this way.
Track bars rate at least a +10 for style, but as far as ride comfort, handling and braking safely, I give them a -20. Track bars are narrow and designed to be ridden in the drops only, without brakes. The levers mount solidly but the bars are not particularly compatible with riding on the hoods or tops, and the levers really only operate easily from the drops.
The attached front view shows how they cant inwards at an awkward angle. A line through the levers intersects with the fork ends. This takes some getting used to and for an old man, they aren't really as safe as the drop bar/brake combo we're used to on our road bikes. I'm proceeding cautiously until I get comfortable using them. I have seen track bikes on the street with a lever mounted near the stem and may try that.
Otherwise, the Super Sport is a great ride. The Brooks saddle turned out pretty good. After several treatments had softened it some, I sanded off the worst of the cracking and other damage. I worked up from coarse to #400 then finished with 0000 steel wool and another treatment with my proofide substitute. Saddle is every bit as comfortable as any broken in Brooks and one of the real pluses for the SS.
The bike has a solid feel with 27" X 1 1/4" tires on the 1 1/8" rims. With cleaned, lubed and adjusted hubs, it coasts well. There is considerable wear on freewheel cogs and crank gear teeth, chain has worn grooves in the inside surface of the big wheel and it is visibly bent, so I shift carefully. The front and rear derailleurs function OK, but are also on their last legs. I would have replaced everything, but my tastes would not have allowed me to stay within the $100 budget. Given the wear on the drive train, I'm reasonably sure the wheels were replaced at some time. They are the correct hubs and rims for a 66 SS, but had no visible wear on the rim edges. Don
You worked magic on that Brooks! The bik looks good. Hopefully you get used to those brake levers!
07-03-16, 07:47 PM
#282
Senior Member
Man, that came a long way!
Nice touch on the lug outlines and the clunker 2016 label. Hopefully that part is a decal because without it I'd say you could double, or maybe even triple, your money easily. Those look like nice tires, btw. I wish I could get some like that for free! My Puch has clearance for days!
Nice touch on the lug outlines and the clunker 2016 label. Hopefully that part is a decal because without it I'd say you could double, or maybe even triple, your money easily. Those look like nice tires, btw. I wish I could get some like that for free! My Puch has clearance for days!
sort of like "dave scott" but not.. even ... close..
07-03-16, 07:49 PM
#283
Senior Member
Did some more work on the Puch tonight. I got to the point of putting on a wheel and found that it was terribly out of dish and true, likely because of the 4 spokes that were so loose that they were rattling.
Something else didn't quite look right so I got out the egg cups:
It's a quick fix though:
And when I finished up tonight, I've almost got a rideable bike:
All I've got left is to true, dish, and de-sticker the front wheel and run cables/housing and adjust the brakes.
Something else didn't quite look right so I got out the egg cups:
It's a quick fix though:
And when I finished up tonight, I've almost got a rideable bike:
All I've got left is to true, dish, and de-sticker the front wheel and run cables/housing and adjust the brakes.
07-03-16, 07:51 PM
#284
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Could be fun. I have an 20+ year old Specialized Crossroads in the corner that I paid $45 for, but it is complete and just in need of a stripdown and rebuild. Might be more fun with more of a clunker. Besides which, I promised my daughter she could have this project bike as a learning experience. I'll see what I come up with.
07-03-16, 08:08 PM
#285
Senior Member
Ha! Glad you like it. Every time I look at it I think " the drillium is crooked." 
I couldn't bring myself to try the brakes. It takes so long and I just know that the round-ness would make it even more crooked. I'm happy with the crank and the brake levers.
I couldn't bring myself to try the brakes. It takes so long and I just know that the round-ness would make it even more crooked. I'm happy with the crank and the brake levers.
07-03-16, 08:16 PM
#286
Senior Member
I'm going to have to sell mine because I don't like the fit. Since buying it I've learned that Puch used a 56cm top tube on all of their sizes. So when I bought a "56" I actually bought something smaller. The reach is fine but the head tube is so short that after raising the post enough for my legs, the saddle to bar drop is pretty extreme.
I'm going to try to get my 100k in before August so I can get it on Craigslist about the time college starts back.
Last edited by Bradleykd; 07-03-16 at 08:22 PM.
07-04-16, 07:50 PM
#287
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Just back from a happy 50th birthday ride for my 66 Super Sport. Couldn't really ride any other bike on 4th of July now could I? Would be un-American. NTL, I would have done better chasing my #1 son around the streets and Capitol grounds of Salem if I was on lighter, Italian, steel. Here I am sucking wind with my helmet still on, wife & daughter-in-law then made me take it off. The SS rolls right along once up to speed and if I drafted him a bit, I could then blast past my son briefly, but that Zeus sure accelerates quickly compared to the SS. We were in High Flange heaven on our 2 oldies. Don
07-04-16, 08:19 PM
#288
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Removing the rust took a lot of the paint with it.
It still looks OK from about 10 feet.
I've started on the paint. Happily the black matched the first paint I tried.
It still looks OK from about 10 feet.
I've started on the paint. Happily the black matched the first paint I tried.
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07-05-16, 10:33 AM
#289
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I so want to do this. Searching for that diamond in the rough...getting a late start but I'm sure to be strong at the finish
07-05-16, 11:05 AM
#290
Senior Member
07-05-16, 11:06 AM
#291
Senior Member
07-05-16, 01:46 PM
#293
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Bike has come to a bit of a halt as my shed had a river running down one wall!! That and, I have gone to a single chain ring up front (so that I can use the near new 118 sealed bearing BB here that I had laying around, it was rubbing on the small chain ring, so that is now on the outside of the crank) and can't find my crank nut tightening tool so the nuts are just sinning as I try to tighten the bolts with an Allen key.
I am trying to not replace the chain as I found the rear derailleur is seized, so I am soaking that down so that the jockey wheel plate will move while changing in turn taking up the chain slack! The joys of buying a bike cheap from a seaside town !!
07-05-16, 04:32 PM
#294
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Relatively free of rust -- way better than it was. There are some small bubbles in the paint. I don't remember seeing them before I applied the Evaporate-Rust so it's possible that it's a side effect (I had it wrapped for four days). Also I haven't done anything to handle whatever rust may be inside the tubes (except the chainstays, which I was able to submerge).
After one coat of paint it looks great from 10 feet. For a clunker it's coming together really well. If this were a better frame, I'd have stripped the bubbles to see what that was about and treated the insides too. As it is, my priorities were:
1) Removing the heavy surface rust.
2) Preserving the decals (which were in great shape at the start of the project).
3) Getting the paint to look decent.
Obviously there is some tension between 1 and 2. I had to put a hole in the downtube decal to get rid of some rust.
Overall, I'm very happy with how it's coming together.
After one coat of paint it looks great from 10 feet. For a clunker it's coming together really well. If this were a better frame, I'd have stripped the bubbles to see what that was about and treated the insides too. As it is, my priorities were:
1) Removing the heavy surface rust.
2) Preserving the decals (which were in great shape at the start of the project).
3) Getting the paint to look decent.
Obviously there is some tension between 1 and 2. I had to put a hole in the downtube decal to get rid of some rust.
Overall, I'm very happy with how it's coming together.
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07-05-16, 04:58 PM
#295
Senior Member
Ouch! , removing the rim tape will ruin it completely as it is tight, must have been a pain putting it on!!
Bike has come to a bit of a halt as my shed had a river running down one wall!! That and, I have gone to a single chain ring up front (so that I can use the near new 118 sealed bearing BB here that I had laying around, it was rubbing on the small chain ring, so that is now on the outside of the crank) and can't find my crank nut tightening tool so the nuts are just sinning as I try to tighten the bolts with an Allen key.
I am trying to not replace the chain as I found the rear derailleur is seized, so I am soaking that down so that the jockey wheel plate will move while changing in turn taking up the chain slack! The joys of buying a bike cheap from a seaside town !!
Bike has come to a bit of a halt as my shed had a river running down one wall!! That and, I have gone to a single chain ring up front (so that I can use the near new 118 sealed bearing BB here that I had laying around, it was rubbing on the small chain ring, so that is now on the outside of the crank) and can't find my crank nut tightening tool so the nuts are just sinning as I try to tighten the bolts with an Allen key.
I am trying to not replace the chain as I found the rear derailleur is seized, so I am soaking that down so that the jockey wheel plate will move while changing in turn taking up the chain slack! The joys of buying a bike cheap from a seaside town !!
About those chain ring bolts:
You may want to make sure that they aren't a tad too long. I went 1X on mine too and had to hit the nut side with a file because of the same problem that you're having.
07-05-16, 05:07 PM
#296
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The difference on the twin ring nuts and single ring nuts and bolts is about 2mm.
Paul.
07-05-16, 05:19 PM
#297
Senior Member
Here are the first pictures from the maiden voyage:
It actually rides pretty good!
The wheels are pretty flexy, which isn't really great when you have to really step on it to start out on the 53/16. I don't mind the gear though so I'm happy that I won't have to buy another.
I'm pleased with the weight it dropped:
Started at 23.9lbs and as pictured it is 21.6lbs, so just slightly lighter than my Ironman, but it's a 2x10 speed soooo...
1983 Puch Alpina: $75.00
China Special bar tape: $3.28
New cables and housing: $0.00
Used brake-pads: $2.00 (estimated value)
Running Total: $80.28
Hours of labor: 14.5
Kilometers ridden: 0.0
Next step: Ride it!
It actually rides pretty good!
The wheels are pretty flexy, which isn't really great when you have to really step on it to start out on the 53/16. I don't mind the gear though so I'm happy that I won't have to buy another.
I'm pleased with the weight it dropped:
Started at 23.9lbs and as pictured it is 21.6lbs, so just slightly lighter than my Ironman, but it's a 2x10 speed soooo...
1983 Puch Alpina: $75.00
China Special bar tape: $3.28
New cables and housing: $0.00
Used brake-pads: $2.00 (estimated value)
Running Total: $80.28
Hours of labor: 14.5
Kilometers ridden: 0.0
Next step: Ride it!
07-05-16, 05:50 PM
#298
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What's the geometry like?
The Steyr Clubman (I'm guessing round 1974) I'm working on has 56 cm seat tube, a 59 cm top tube and (I think) 70 degree seat tube and head tube angles. I really don't know what to expect when I ride it. Your Puch looks like it may be similar.
By contrast, my Austro-Daimler (~1979) has 74 degree angles and is 57x57. With a less corporate builder I'd assume they must have had a plan, but with Steyr-Daimler-Puch I'm not so sure.
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07-05-16, 06:50 PM
#299
Senior Member
It looks great. Very nice work.
What's the geometry like?
The Steyr Clubman (I'm guessing round 1974) I'm working on has 56 cm seat tube, a 59 cm top tube and (I think) 70 degree seat tube and head tube angles. I really don't know what to expect when I ride it. Your Puch looks like it may be similar.
By contrast, my Austro-Daimler (~1979) has 74 degree angles and is 57x57. With a less corporate builder I'd assume they must have had a plan, but with Steyr-Daimler-Puch I'm not so sure.
What's the geometry like?
The Steyr Clubman (I'm guessing round 1974) I'm working on has 56 cm seat tube, a 59 cm top tube and (I think) 70 degree seat tube and head tube angles. I really don't know what to expect when I ride it. Your Puch looks like it may be similar.
By contrast, my Austro-Daimler (~1979) has 74 degree angles and is 57x57. With a less corporate builder I'd assume they must have had a plan, but with Steyr-Daimler-Puch I'm not so sure.
You've got a keen eye.
Mine has a 56cm top tube and a 53cm seat tube. I would say the rest is pretty similar being they are proportioned the same.
With that being said, it kind of rides like a bus.
The wheelbase is huge. This one has a really short stem that makes it feel a bit more twitchy, but it's no crit bike.