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Schwinn paramount vs Schwinn Columbus tubing which is better?

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Schwinn paramount vs Schwinn Columbus tubing which is better?

Old 06-09-16, 09:30 PM
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Schwinn paramount vs Schwinn Columbus tubing which is better?

I have been wondering which one out of the two is better quality , Schwinn paramount or Schwinn with Columbus tubing?
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Old 06-09-16, 09:46 PM
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Well both are high-quality; can't go wrong either way.

The Columbus-tubed Schwinns - at least the ones I know about, with Tenax - were Japanese-built in the mid-late 80s and a lot of people around here love 'em.
The Paramounts, assuming you mean the Chicago-built 70s-and-prior versions, were Reynolds 531 built by three people locked in a cage all day.

Depends where your tastes lie, I suppose.

(...and this is gonna be one looooooong thread by the time all is said and done, I'd wager; just wait'll the people who know stuff chime in!)
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Old 06-09-16, 11:01 PM
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Columbus makes tubing in a number of different grades, and Schwinn built bikes at various quality/price points from different grades of Columbus tubing -- including Paramounts made from from Columbus SLX or SL/SP tubing in the '80s.

In general, Paramount > other Schwinns, regardless of tubing manufacturer.

...but if someone doesn't agree and they have a Paramount, I'd be happy to swap my Mississippi-built, Columbus Tenax-tubed, '85 Le Tour Luxe for it. ;-)
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Old 06-09-16, 11:21 PM
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...there were all sorts of Paramounts made over the years, including the PDG Paramounts from Japan. I don't think your question has enough information in it.
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Old 06-09-16, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyDog75 View Post
Columbus makes tubing in a number of different grades, and Schwinn built bikes at various quality/price points from different grades of Columbus tubing -- including Paramounts made from from Columbus SLX or SL/SP tubing in the '80s.

In general, Paramount > other Schwinns, regardless of tubing manufacturer.

...but if someone doesn't agree and they have a Paramount, I'd be happy to swap my Mississippi-built, Columbus Tenax-tubed, '85 Le Tour Luxe for it. ;-)
Weren't a lot of the Tenax bike built in Greenville Mississippi?
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Old 06-10-16, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
Weren't a lot of the Tenax bike built in Greenville Mississippi?
I don't know how much "a lot" is, or if some contract-built Japanese Schwinns might've been built from Tenax, but the Greenville plant did make at least a few models from Tenax in the '80s.
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Old 06-10-16, 03:37 AM
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The mid-80's Tenax Tempo's were Japan, correct?
I have had, and have a number of those.

I also have a Mississippi Prologue, but it is Tange Prestige.

Truthfully, I like the Tempo's better.

One of my favorite Schwinn's is a mid to later 80's Peloton. Love that bike. I'm pretty sure that is Tenax. I do not know where that was made.
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Old 06-10-16, 05:00 AM
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FWIIW, I have a '71 Paramount P-13 (Reynolds 531) and an '83 Paramount Standard (Columbus ???). Both are 24"/60cm frames. The '83 flexes ever so slightly more than the '71 when standing to climb or sprint--- I think.

I say this because there can be a very slight rub when standing on the '83. However--- the clearances on the '83 are very tight, whereas the '71 has enough space to swap the original tubulars for 27X1 &1/4 wheels and tires. So, if not for the slight rub, I'd never know.
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Old 06-10-16, 05:38 AM
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I have a PDG Paramount (Panasonic), and three other Schwinns. For a go fast bike, the Paramount can't be beat, but it demands a smooth riding surface. Quick and responsive. And unforgiving. For a comfortable long ride on questionable surfaces, the 84 Letour Luxe can't be beat. For a long ride on a nice surface, I'll take the Tenax 87 Prelude. My night time rider is a 78 World, imported from Giant, and made of Femco 1207 hi-ten. Comfortable enough, but not what one would call responsive.
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Old 06-10-16, 06:18 AM
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I apologize in advance for being contrarian. ;-)

Originally Posted by jjames1452 View Post
The mid-80's Tenax Tempo's were Japan, correct?
I have had, and have a number of those.
I don't know about other years, but as of 1986, those were being built in Greenville. The following quote is from a Schwinn Eagle excerpt from late 1985 posted by Scooper in the old "Show Your Tenax Schwinns" thread: "Seven out of the 14 models in the Lightweight line will be produced in Greenville this year. These include: Traveler, LeTour, Passage, Prelude, Madison, Tempo and the Super Sport."

Originally Posted by jjames1452 View Post
I also have a Mississippi Prologue, but it is Tange Prestige.
You sure about it being from Mississippi? I've read in multiple places that the Prologues were built by Panasonic, which makes sense given the Japanese tubeset.

Originally Posted by jjames1452 View Post
One of my favorite Schwinn's is a mid to later 80's Peloton. Love that bike. I'm pretty sure that is Tenax. I do not know where that was made.
The '86 Peloton was made from Columbus SL/SP by Panasonic. Not sure about other years.
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Old 06-10-16, 08:02 AM
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1984-86 Pelotons were made from a Columbus SL/SP mix. Schwinn contracted Panasonic to build them.
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Old 06-10-16, 08:17 AM
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Paramounts are/were considered the pinnacle of the Schwinn lineup, built of Reynolds 531 and later Columbus SL/SLX frames. The most revered frames were built in Chicago and Waterford.

Worth reading.

Paramount ? The Early Years

The mid 1980's Pelotons were fabricated with Columbus SL tube-sets as was the rare Circuit. Also, one member just shared that he has an 1989 Tempo with a Columbus Tenax SL decal, which is a curiousity to both of us. We'll have to look for the emeritus professor of all Schwinn history, @Scooper's expertise.

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Old 06-10-16, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Danbianchi881 View Post
I have been wondering which one out of the two is better quality , Schwinn paramount or Schwinn with Columbus tubing?
The context of the question isn't clear, but I'm guessing it's about the difference between the Columbus SLX (SL/SP mix for larger frames) Paramounts and the "Paramount Design Group Tubing" Paramounts introduced in 1989.

Marc Muller, the then head of PDG, worked closely with True Temper to develop oversized (OS) tubing with a flared seat tube at the BB shell, and a new Paramount version using this new tubing was introduced in 1989 as an alternative to the established standard diameter Columbus tubed Paramounts. According to Schwinn, the advantage of the new tubing was that it offered greater frame stiffness at lighter weight, with the flared seat tube adding stiffness in the BB area.

In 1989, and for a couple of years after the OS Paramount introduction, Schwinn offered both versions. As sales of the PDG OS tubing model rapidly increased and soon surpassed sales of the SLX and SL/SP models, Schwinn phased out the Columbus tubing models. As the OS Paramount evolved in the early nineties, Schwinn switched to a heat treated version of the True Temper tubing and then to Reynolds 753 OS tubing just before Paramount production ceased.



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Old 06-10-16, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyDog75 View Post
Columbus makes tubing in a number of different grades, and Schwinn built bikes at various quality/price points from different grades of Columbus tubing -- including Paramounts made from from Columbus SLX or SL/SP tubing in the '80s.

In general, Paramount > other Schwinns, regardless of tubing manufacturer.

...but if someone doesn't agree and they have a Paramount, I'd be happy to swap my Mississippi-built, Columbus Tenax-tubed, '85 Le Tour Luxe for it. ;-)
I'd trade my Tange Prestige OS-made Paramount PDG Series 7 for a Reynolds 853-made Peloton Pro. Of course, the 853-based Peloton Pro is a more recent bike, and when that was being made, the Paramounts were being made by Serotta for Schwinn out of Titanium, but they shared the same geometry.

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Old 06-10-16, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by D1andonlyDman View Post
the Paramounts were being made by Serotta for Schwinn out of Titanium, but they shared the same geometry.
I've always had my eye on one of those Serotta Ti Paramounts. Saw one on ebay recently for a decent price but it wasn't my size. I really like the paint jobs on those too with the Schwinn script.
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Old 06-11-16, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyDog75 View Post
I apologize in advance for being contrarian. ;-)



I don't know about other years, but as of 1986, those were being built in Greenville. The following quote is from a Schwinn Eagle excerpt from late 1985 posted by Scooper in the old "Show Your Tenax Schwinns" thread: "Seven out of the 14 models in the Lightweight line will be produced in Greenville this year. These include: Traveler, LeTour, Passage, Prelude, Madison, Tempo and the Super Sport."



You sure about it being from Mississippi? I've read in multiple places that the Prologues were built by Panasonic, which makes sense given the Japanese tubeset.



The '86 Peloton was made from Columbus SL/SP by Panasonic. Not sure about other years.
Thanks - I appreciate this forum for the knowledge imparted. There is great bike knowledge here.
Just for S&G's, here is my list of most ridden Schwinn's (and I do not have my Waterford Paramount frame built yet):
Peloton - SL/SP (Supurbe)
Voyageur - Tenax (Shimano touring)
Tempo - Tenax (Ultegra/600/105 - Ihave a couple)
Le Tour 12.2 - 4130 (I know it's not stock, but it functions better than stock - Suntour ARx)
Prelude - Tenax main triangle (600)
Prologue - Tange Prestige (very nice Dura Ace hubs with Open Pro wheels, my favorite Pro bars, my second favorite saddle, 600 Blue Anodized drive components)

My thoughts - the steel is all good - it is the geometry of the frame - frame height - pairing of the components that feels right about the favorites, and less so on the lessor ridden. I'm thinking on deep sixing the Prologue frame and switching the components to a Trek 560 or 612 frame.
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Old 06-11-16, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jjames1452 View Post
I'm thinking on deep sixing the Prologue frame...
If you do, and it's in the 54 cm range, I'll be passing through Dayton in August. ;-)
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Old 06-12-16, 06:34 PM
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It's unfortunately 60 cm. I'm going put a Cambium on it and ride it for a while. Others love them, and I wand to give the bike a fair shot.
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Old 06-12-16, 11:23 PM
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I have a feeling OP is asking the difference between the 90's tange Paramount PDG Series and the mid-late 80's tenax schwinns.

Quality and performance wise, they should be virtually identical if you compared models that sold at similar price points. The PDGs were just more recently made and thus sometimes incorporated slightly better tech like OS tubing.

The PDG line was just a marketing gimmick that had mid to upper tier offerings. The mid tier PDGs would have been equitable to the tenaxs from a few years previous. The top 2 PDGs (one was waterford and the other was a slightly cheaper japanese made offering I think) were in theory comparable in quality/attention to detail as the Paramounts of the previous decades were.


Originally Posted by D1andonlyDman View Post
I'd trade my Tange Prestige OS-made Paramount PDG Series 7 for a Reynolds 853-made Peloton Pro. Of course, the 853-based Peloton Pro is a more recent bike, and when that was being made, the Paramounts were being made by Serotta for Schwinn out of Titanium, but they shared the same geometry.
I have a '99 Schwinn Circuit frame made with that Reynolds 853. I believe all those later 853 frames were identical in terms of geometry, just with different component group offerings.

I have to admit these later bikes ride wonderfully. Unfortunately my xenophobia towards post buyout Schwinns prevents me from keeping and enjoying it.
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Old 06-13-16, 06:14 AM
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Others have beat me to this but my '84 Paramount Elite was made from Columbus SL. It was a 50cm so the frame wasn't a mix of SL and SP like the larger frames. I preferred the ride of my Serotta made from SLX so I passed that bike on to someone that would appreciate it more than I did. It was a gorgeous bike though with the red white and blue decals on black paint.


Originally Posted by zazenzach View Post

I have a '99 Schwinn Circuit frame made with that Reynolds 853. I believe all those later 853 frames were identical in terms of geometry, just with different component group offerings.

I have to admit these later bikes ride wonderfully. Unfortunately my xenophobia towards post buyout Schwinns prevents me from keeping and enjoying it.

I have schemed to get rid of my 853 Peloton many times including stripping it down to the frame and boxing it up for sale this winter. But I have grown to really love the bike and rebuilt it this spring. Such a lively and light frame.
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Old 06-13-16, 07:53 AM
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I'd like to hear from the OP whether or not his question has been answered adequately.
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Old 06-13-16, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
I'd like to hear from the OP whether or not his question has been answered adequately.
Yes @Scooper my question have been answered. The only reason i ask was that I own a Merckx with Columbus SLX and I have never heard of Columbus Tenax before.
Was just curious of what the quality was in Tenax tubing.
The more I ride my Premis and it feel like I'm riding on silky smooth road.
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Old 06-13-16, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by zazenzach View Post
I have a feeling OP is asking the difference between the 90's tange Paramount PDG Series and the mid-late 80's tenax schwinns.

Quality and performance wise, they should be virtually identical if you compared models that sold at similar price points. The PDGs were just more recently made and thus sometimes incorporated slightly better tech like OS tubing.

The PDG line was just a marketing gimmick that had mid to upper tier offerings. The mid tier PDGs would have been equitable to the tenaxs from a few years previous. The top 2 PDGs (one was waterford and the other was a slightly cheaper japanese made offering I think) were in theory comparable in quality/attention to detail as the Paramounts of the previous decades were.




I have a '99 Schwinn Circuit frame made with that Reynolds 853. I believe all those later 853 frames were identical in terms of geometry, just with different component group offerings.

I have to admit these later bikes ride wonderfully. Unfortunately my xenophobia towards post buyout Schwinns prevents me from keeping and enjoying it.
I so regret selling my 99 Circuit. I was an idiot!!!!!
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Old 06-13-16, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
I so regret selling my 99 Circuit. I was an idiot!!!!!
I facilitated a '99 Peloton, also 853, and I was quite impressed with it. The only reason I didn't buy it myself was that it was too similar to the 853-based LeMond Zurich that I had just bought for myself a couple of weeks earlier, and I couldn't rationalize them both
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Old 06-13-16, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by D1andonlyDman View Post
I facilitated a '99 Peloton, also 853, and I was quite impressed with it. The only reason I didn't buy it myself was that it was too similar to the 853-based LeMond Zurich that I had just bought for myself a couple of weeks earlier, and I couldn't rationalize them both
I just can't rationalize that. In fact I had a Zurich when I bought the Circuit. Two completely different bikes despite both being 853. I mean jeesh one was blue and the other was black.
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