Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

I have a weird-stupid (and possibly heretical) build idea....

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

I have a weird-stupid (and possibly heretical) build idea....

Old 06-11-16, 10:52 PM
  #1  
agmetal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
I have a weird-stupid (and possibly heretical) build idea....

I have a chance to get a DL-1 frame for cheap, and I'm playing with the idea of a Pashley Guv'nor/Speed 5-inspired build....but, instead of using north road or Lauterwasser style bars, I'm thinking about a more typical drop bar. Has anyone ever done this, and if so, can you post pictures?

EDIT: I wouldn't be using the rod brakes...I'd use drum brake hubs with regular drop bar brake levers, much like I have on my Panasonic "Stupid Franken-3-Speed"

Last edited by agmetal; 06-12-16 at 08:00 AM.
agmetal is offline  
Old 06-11-16, 11:17 PM
  #2  
Lascauxcaveman 
Senior Member
 
Lascauxcaveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,421

Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.

Mentioned: 167 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1381 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 58 Posts
Doesn't sound weird to me. This one has 3 more gears in the hub but it's a shot in the same direction (racier frame geometry, though).
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1981 Miyata 1000 ● 1984 Bianchi Limited ● 1984 Nishiki Landau ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Univega Nuovo Sport ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Trek 400 ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
Lascauxcaveman is offline  
Old 06-11-16, 11:26 PM
  #3  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,153

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 459 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1574 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 23 Posts
The main problem I'd see is how to rig brake levers for rod brakes to the handlebar. If you mean to use standard calipers, then no problem.
__________________
I put new leather on ruined saddles like Brooks, etc. You can reach me by private message.
rhm is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 05:40 AM
  #4  
agmetal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
I'd be using drum brakes, no rods. I've set up a 3-speed hub with an STI lever before, and I'm thinking of combining that idea with roadster geometry and wheel size
agmetal is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 06:13 AM
  #5  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 19,514

Bikes: 1959 & 1960 Capo; 1982 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 723 Post(s)
Liked 47 Times in 43 Posts
It sounds like a great project to me, and eliminating rod brakes would strike a great blow for safety.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324
Capo: 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 07:19 AM
  #6  
bertinjim 
Senior Member
 
bertinjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 1,030

Bikes: 1960s Bertin C37, 1970s Bertin C 37

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 10 Posts
agmetal-

The dropped bar to rod brake interface sounds like a problem. For cheap, grab an old Raleigh Grand Prix and drop in a 5 spd rear hub. Gives you dropped bars and functioning brakes with the fewest problems.
bertinjim is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 07:58 AM
  #7  
Murray Missile 
Bike hoarder.
 
Murray Missile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: 700 Ft. above sea level.
Posts: 1,978

Bikes: Not near as many as there was awhile ago.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 225 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 46 Posts
Wow.


Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
Doesn't sound weird to me. This one has 3 more gears in the hub but it's a shot in the same direction (racier frame geometry, though).
__________________
".....distasteful and easily triggered."
Murray Missile is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 07:59 AM
  #8  
bwilli88 
Senior Member
 
bwilli88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Kampong Cham, Cambodia but I have quite a few in Lancaster, PA
Posts: 1,892

Bikes: Bikes in USA; 73 Raleigh Supercourse dingle speed, 74 Raleigh Grand Prix SS, 78 Raleigh Supercourse, 83 Centurion Pro-Tour, 82 Raleigh RRA.

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 23 Posts
This 85 Gazelle has a similar geo to the DL-1 and felt that drop bars would not work for me. 2 reasons; 1 it is too tall, 2 my belly is too big to fit into the cramped position with my feet so far forward because of the sloping seat tube. It now has a Brooks pro and some flat bars with a nice curve to the rear ( the bars look like a nice parenthesis). A smaller size would be ok with the seat really far front on the seat post.
Also realize that the head tube angle makes the bars turn in a funky manner.
This is running a SA drum front brake and SRAM 2 speed auto rear Coaster brake with 28" rims 635 ERT and Schwalbe cruiser tires. Fun bike to ride and really moves because of the gear ratio.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_20160212_165343836.jpg (98.3 KB, 239 views)
__________________
My Cambodia bikes; ?? Zunow, 81 Centurion Pro Tour, 85 Gazelle Mens Market bike, ?? Maxwell Allroad, 12 Fuji Stratos.
bwilli88 is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 08:00 AM
  #9  
agmetal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by bertinjim View Post
agmetal-

The dropped bar to rod brake interface sounds like a problem. For cheap, grab an old Raleigh Grand Prix and drop in a 5 spd rear hub. Gives you dropped bars and functioning brakes with the fewest problems.
Cable-actuated drums, not rods. This is all about the geometry and 28" wheels.
agmetal is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 08:26 AM
  #10  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,153

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 459 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1574 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by agmetal View Post
Cable-actuated drums, not rods. This is all about the geometry and 28" wheels.
Well then I don't see any reason you can't do it.

That said I can't go so far as to call it a good idea. Most bicycle designers since 1950 or so would tell you the incredibly slack frame geometry is obsolete for good reason, but if it's what you like, go for it.

I have done my time playing with drum brakes, and have reluctantly come to the conclusion that they're a pain in the neck; but again, if that's what you like, go for it.

The same goes for 28" wheels. I know the guys riding "29ers" will disagree, but I think the larger diameter gives no advantage, while the heavy rims and tires are a distinct disadvantage; but like I said... if that's what you want....
__________________
I put new leather on ruined saddles like Brooks, etc. You can reach me by private message.
rhm is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 08:55 AM
  #11  
agmetal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
What can I say? I enjoy cognitive dissonance and anachronisms. I already own a bike with a front drum brake and an STI lever controlling a vintage AW hub, and a 1930s roadster....now I want to combine those ideas with some Pashley Guvnor influence mixed in
agmetal is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 09:08 AM
  #12  
crank_addict
Senior Member
 
crank_addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,586
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1123 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 87 Times in 54 Posts
Surely could be done and less challenging than a DL1 with rod actuated. Cable operated, yes. Anyways, RHM summed it up well.

As for myself, been sidetracked on far too many things lately but did start on a DL1 project w/ Nasbar steel Lauterwasser style bars. The goal of retaining rod brake linkage. Shop made braze-ons for the bar, lots of custom bending of rods, etc.. Mostly experimental, weird angles. Conclusion was a loss of leverage, more time than its worth and have parked it all. There's a few pics on the net of very early racers (1930's?) with a similar arrangement. But for something different and one has the time, go for it.
crank_addict is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 09:23 AM
  #13  
clubman
Youngman Grand
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,709

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1057 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times in 67 Posts
You'll probably want to source a horizontal 'L' seat post to get forward enough for drop bars. That, and a small frame and a short stem may get you into a rideable position.
clubman is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 09:34 AM
  #14  
clubman
Youngman Grand
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,709

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1057 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times in 67 Posts
off-topic, kinda. Check out the stem/fork combo on this 'Bradbury'. Doesn't look comfortable to me.
clubman is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 12:42 PM
  #15  
agmetal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Yeah, I'll be using a 22" frame, and probably a zero-setback seatpost
agmetal is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 01:10 PM
  #16  
sailorbenjamin 
26 tpi nut.
 
sailorbenjamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Posts: 5,703

Bikes: one of each

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You can flip the seat bracket over to get an inch or two further forward. I was wanting to try this for a long time. It's tough to get all the hardware to make things compatible but I was always on a tight budget. Look to the old racers for inspiration. Have fun and keep us posted!
I got about this far before I found some other project to distract me. I had collected alloy rims and a fixed gear hub but never got around to lacing them.
__________________
I have spoken.
sailorbenjamin is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 05:32 PM
  #17  
agmetal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Well, it turns out that the guy doesn't actually have the frame he thought he did. I do have a 24" one here at home that I could use, but I don't think I quite have the legs to stand over it.
agmetal is offline  
Old 06-12-16, 09:16 PM
  #18  
agmetal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
This is just kind of quickly thrown together with bits that I have lying around, but this is the basic look of the idea I have in mind. The saddle is set to roughly the height I'd need it to be to ride, and the stem is in as far as the light bracket will allow (plus the stem and handlebar give slightly too much reach). A 22" frame would be the same length, but would give me more standover clearance.


Last edited by agmetal; 06-12-16 at 09:20 PM.
agmetal is offline  
Old 06-13-16, 04:56 AM
  #19  
Velognome 
Get off my lawn!
 
Velognome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 6,218

Bikes: 1917 Loomis, 1923 Rudge, 1930 Hercules Renown, 1947 Mclean, 1948 JA Holland, 1955 Hetchins, 1957 Carlton Flyer, 1962 Raleigh Sport, 1978&81 Raleigh Gomp GS', 2010 Raliegh Clubman

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Once the novelty wears off, you'll be left with a heavy, slug. Search for a light frame with the proper geometry, you can find it among British Frames from the 30's & 50's. Sellers like Hilary Stone are a good source to watch, some even end up in his "Bargain" section.

It will cost you a few coin but you'll end up with a bike you'll enjoy to ride.

Last edited by Velognome; 06-13-16 at 05:09 AM.
Velognome is offline  
Old 06-13-16, 05:50 AM
  #20  
daf1009 
Senior Member
 
daf1009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 3,178

Bikes: LESS than I did a year ago!

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Sounds cool...
__________________
72 Schwinn Super Sport, 80 Raleigh Super Course, 81 Miyata 1000, 85 Bianchi Veloce, 93 Tommasini Super Prestige, 05 Pinarello Surprise
daf1009 is offline  
Old 06-13-16, 05:56 AM
  #21  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,153

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 459 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1574 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 23 Posts
The seat tube angle is not the problem; as has been mentioned, you can put the seat clamp on the front of the post, or use a gallows style post, to move the seat to the correct position in relation to the crank. That's easy. But with the DL-1 style roadster frame, you'll still be left with the impossibly slack head tube.

So, for example, my Fothergill (built either just before, or just after WW 2):



The seat tube is as slack as a roadster, but I have the seat mounted in a normal position by reversing the clamp; but the head tube is a relatively modern 73 degrees or so. The frame looks archaic, but in fact rides fine.

Maybe you can find a DL-1 that's been in a head-on collision, giving it a steeper head angle. That would ride much better.
__________________
I put new leather on ruined saddles like Brooks, etc. You can reach me by private message.
rhm is offline  
Old 06-13-16, 08:44 AM
  #22  
agmetal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
I think a lot of you are missing the point of what I'm trying to do
agmetal is offline  
Old 06-13-16, 08:59 AM
  #23  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,153

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 459 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1574 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by agmetal View Post
I think a lot of you are missing the point of what I'm trying to do
Well, speaking for myself, yes. Guilty as charged.

On the other hand, could it be that you're missing the point of what a lot of us are trying to do?
__________________
I put new leather on ruined saddles like Brooks, etc. You can reach me by private message.
rhm is offline  
Old 06-13-16, 09:07 AM
  #24  
agmetal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Well, speaking for myself, yes. Guilty as charged.

On the other hand, could it be that you're missing the point of what a lot of us are trying to do?
Perhaps, but how many of the commenters have ridden a roadster? My '37 is faster than most people expect, climbs surprisingly well, and does really well on gravel and bumpy roads. A lot of that is due to the steering geometry, the large wheels, and long crank arms....and the weight helps keep it rolling once it's up to speed.
agmetal is offline  
Old 06-13-16, 09:14 AM
  #25  
ThermionicScott 
hungry
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 19,004

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2277 Post(s)
Liked 245 Times in 189 Posts
Originally Posted by Velognome View Post
Once the novelty wears off, you'll be left with a heavy, slug.
Originally Posted by rhm View Post
The seat tube angle is not the problem; as has been mentioned, you can put the seat clamp on the front of the post, or use a gallows style post, to move the seat to the correct position in relation to the crank. That's easy. But with the DL-1 style roadster frame, you'll still be left with the impossibly slack head tube.
That's the thought that came to my mind, too. If I have one complaint about my drop-bar MTB conversion, it's that even with long-reach handlebars and a stem with decent effective reach by itself, my hands end up well behind the front wheel's axle. The headtube has an angle of 70 or 71, and so there is more flop and "fight" to the steering than a regular road bike. It's acceptable for how I use the bike, but I wouldn't want it to be any worse.

But this is not to talk @agmetal out of the project, I want him to see it through and get his impressions afterward.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.