Peugeot ID
 

Howdy folks-

I've been eyeing this old Peugeot for some time and have even settled on a price with the owner, but have not had time to go see it in person.
He's advertised this as a PA10 but I don't think it is.

It has the Stronglight crankset and better components than the PA10, am I correct?

Any thoughts on what model this might be?

thanks,

Mark

Maybe a PA10 with an upgraded crank. I have one of those.

Maybe a PR10. There would be a Reynolds sticker on the down tube right where it's blocked by the handlebar in the picture.

I've looked at a bunch of old catalog scans and it seems the PA-10's had Simplex Prestige derailleurs/shifters, which this bike doesn't have.
The seller doesn't recall seeing a Reynolds sticker (bikes in storage) but I'll look for that for sure in person. That should narrow things down a bit.


Mark

Here's a better pic of the seat tube, on my UE-8 and other lower models of Peugeots I've seen there was the "Peugeot Cadre Allege" sticker noting the plain hi tensile steel tubing used. This one doesn't have that sticker, but, I suppose it could have been removed.


mark

Also the rims are Super Champion clinchers laced to Normandy high flange hubs.

I wouldn't expect it to have its original derailleurs and shifters. They wear out and get replaced, especially when they're made with Delrin.

Hard to tell from the photo, but the front derailleur is almost certainly a replacement. it does appear to be a nicer model and worth checking out.

Yeah I tend to agree, but, I also think its not likely that someone would replace the Delrin Prestige with another Simplex, in most of the "upgraded" old Peugeots I've seen people have used SunTour or anything else.


Of course in recent history people are more likely to keep things "original" or at least French in this case, so someone might replace Simplex with Simplex, but this bike hasn't been upgraded in recent history that's for sure!


But who knows really, without a tubing sticker? I've looked at tons of catalog pics and this bike is way more similar in frame details/buildout to PR10 types than PA10 types.


Mk

pr10 came with tubulars like its big bro.
.

Pics are kind of small so not sure, but ... is that front fork bent? (seriously)

Found the fork puzzling as its blades and crown look like something one would expect on a UO-series machine rather than a PA or PR series cycle. Blades appear to be the Peugeot ones with the prominent seam at the back. Wonder if perhaps original fork lost its life to misadventure and this is something a shop had on hand to put the machine back on the road...

Not enough of a Peugeot buff to make guesses as to model. Looks as though it hails from the ~1975-76 time.

Will look forward to reading what the lion rampant experts have to say. ;)

Seatpost diameter of 26.4 or 26.6mm --> PR-10; smaller --> PA-10

Integral derailleur hanger --> at least a PA-10, as opposed to something like a UO-9

Decal design --> mid-1970s, by which time PA-10 might have come with lower-end aluminum cranks, which those appear to be in the low-resolution picture

Freewheel looks PA/PR/PX-10ish, i.e., small (standard equipment through 1974 was 14-21), but wheelset, including pie plate, shouts "UO-8/9"

Boy with one is a bit of a puzzler. Can't wait to see it in person so I can get some real info!


As far as the crankset, I haven't seen any pics of PA10's with anything other than a cottered crank (speaking of catalog pics, of course they can be upgraded by the owner). Also, this bike certainly has a Stronglight, this would never have been considered a "lower end aluminum crank" as you say, would it? I've included a pic I have the crank.


Also the wheelset, they are certainly Normandy/Super Champion which rules out the U-series bikes and their steel rims (unless of course someone changed them out).


I'm still thinking if the components are original, then PR-10 or PKN-10 (although I can't see any catalog references to the PKN-10 pre-1980)


I love these mysteries.


Mk

Here's the pic the seller has of the crankset.


MK

That's a Stronglight 49D if I'm not mistaken. EDIT: Now that you posted the side shot, confirmed, 49D.

Wheels can be replaced and so can cranksets. I recently picked up a PX10 that was a weirdo... Lots of Campy Record (including Super record hubs and Araya red labels) and a Stronglight 99bis crankset, Stronglight Super Record headset... and an Rx100 rear derailleur. Long story short: owners change things. Decals are indicative of something in the latter half of the 70s, 75-78ish, I'm guessing 75-76. Fork is normal for anything PR and under, rear dropouts are correct for something PA or higher. Would be interesting to see the downtube, looks like Simplex Criterium levers.

The shift levers are Criterium, and I can't find the pic now which the seller sent but I know for sure they're Crits.


Mk

Found the pic of the downtube showing Criterium shifters.


MK

Well, we know it's post-'74 based on the decals, amongst other things. In '75 they started putting Reynolds stickers on the downtube just above the shift levers. See if there's any remnants of the stickers above the shift levers if you can find the pics. If yes, it's probably PR10.

Well the '74 catalog only shows the PR-10 with tubulars but here's a pic from the '77 catalog and the PRN-10E which looks very similar.........


Mk

An ounce of knowledge is worth a pound of guessing... ;)

It's a mid 70's PR-10. By then, lightweight high pressure clincher like Michelin Elans and Wolber W20s were replacing sewups on all but the the high end performance models made by the French manufacturers.

The PA-10 was Peugeot's amateur racing model - basically a U0-8 with a racing geometry frame, close ratio gears, alloy bars and sewups. It was the equivalent of Gitane's Interclub model. Most of the French manufacturers made bikes like those for young riders in the European market.

The PR-10 was the next step up. The frame was butted Reynolds 531 in the 3 main tubes with the same Peugeot carbon steel rear forks and stays as the PA-10 bikes including the stamped steel fork crown.

The PR-10s came with Simplex forged dropouts and fork ends plus after about 1973 Nervex Dubois lugs.

They also used Stronglight 49d cranks and by the mid 70's ATAX cast aluminum stems with recessed allen head expander bolts.

The bike seems to have a lot of rust which is ALWAYS a deal breaker for me. Peugeot did a good job of treating their frames so rust was rarely an issue in that area but everything else will need to be disassembled and de-rusticated! :eek:

If the price is very right and you have the time and inclination to clean it up it could be a good deal (right price = N < $100)...


verktyg :50:

Chas.

Both the PA10 and PR10 used the same seamed fork as the U08.

They started putting the Reynolds decal on the down tube in 1974. That's what I was referring to in post number 2.

It's better to look at frame details than components that can be changed.

The components say PX, but it's just a lowly PA:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...0/189/5jto.jpg

This is a PX, but it has no original components:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...0/203/zjgr.jpg

Am I misunderstanding you on the year? Early 70s decal layout remained relatively static with Reynolds stickers on the seat tube through the 1974 year. Reynolds decal didn't jump to the downtube until they changed the Peugeot downtube decal styling in 1975. (Edit: For North American market, at least)

They moved the Reynolds sticker to the down tube in 1974. I have a 1974 PX10LE that I bought new in North America to prove it.